Finding Jesus on Upside Down Days: Jill and Paul Miller

Episode Transcript

FamilyLife Today® National Radio Version (time edited) Transcript

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Finding Jesus on Upside-Down Days

Guests:Paul and Jill Miller

From the series:Loving Kids with Disabilities (Day 1 of 2)

Air date:July 3, 2024

Jill: My daughter, Courtney (my oldest one), gave me a gift of the New Testament, and in the Gospels, she used one of those Sharpie knives, and she cut out all the parts of the Gospels that had to do with disability. It’s incredible! There are shreds of pages left. I’ll hold up the Bible, and I’ll say, “Well, is this Bible complete? Of course, it’s not.” And I say, “The church is not complete without disability.”

Shelby: Welcome to FamilyLife Today, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I’m Shelby Abbott, and your hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson. You can find us at FamilyLifeToday.com.

Ann: This is FamilyLife Today!

Dave: I think I’m going to say something I’ve never said on the FamilyLife Today broadcast.

Ann: Oooh! What is this?

Dave: We’re going to talk about animals today; [Animal sounds and Laughter] barnyard animals.

Ann: I tell you, I’m going to say. I’m so excited. There’s this whole other part of me that nobody knows, but I am secretly so excited about this today.

Dave: Why? Why? Why?

Ann: Because we have Paul Miller back with us, and he has brought his wife, Jill, with him to the studios of FamilyLife.

Dave: Jill, you’re famous, because he’s talked about you—

Ann: —all the time—

Dave: —in ways that we just want to know you.

Jill: Oh, honey. I love you.

Ann: It’s really sweet; but the other reason I’m excited is because, Jill, you’ve written a devotional for kids, and it’s called Finding Jesus on Upside-Down Days.

Jill: Yes.

Ann: Even the title is intriguing.

Dave: Well, let’s start here: tell our listeners who you guys are.

Ann: Yes, what you do.

Dave: I’d love to hear, at least, Jill’s side of the story [of] how you met and a little bit of your marriage story, even before we jump into the devo, because I’m not kidding, our listeners have heard Paul many times, and he’s mentioned you, and this is the first time they’re going to hear your voice. So, they’d love to hear who you are, what you do, and how you met.

Jill: The secret story of how we first met?

Dave: Yes.

Jill: Well, Paul’s sister was my best friend in high school, and she started in tenth grade. I eventually ended up in her bedroom on the third floor in their Victorian house. She was trying to help me with Algebra. So, it was a beautiful late-spring morning because exams were coming, and I had to get this in my head because finals were coming.

So, the window was open because [it was the] third floor—no air conditioning—and Barb’s parents’ house was. . . They didn’t have much money for air conditioning. So, the window was wide open, and it was late in the afternoon, and I was tired. I really didn’t want to learn about Algebra, so I picked up my math book, and I threw it out the window. [Laughter]

Dave: Of course, you did.

Jill: And then I heard this little voice say, “Whew! Wow!” and I looked out the window, and this person looked up and I said, “Whoops! Sor-ry!” That was Paul.

Dave: Really?

Paul: So, Jill has this crazy side. [Laughter]

Dave: We haven’t noticed. [Laughter]

Paul: And that was my introduction to Jill’s vivacious spark that she’s brought into our lives over many years.

Ann: Paul, are you different from Jill?

Paul: Someone needs to be stable. [Laughter] Yes.

Dave: So, how have you made that work?

Paul: God has been so good to us. He really has been. In some ways, our marriage has been a series of laments for one another that God has answered. He’s so good.

Dave: One of the first times we talked to you on FamilyLife Today was the J-Curve book.

Paul: Right.

Dave: I don’t know if that was the first time, but it was one of the first times.

Ann: Which is so good. It really impacted us.

Dave: Oh, every one of them has been. Even the last time you were here, talking about the praying church. We talked about it all night after the day. It was so powerful; but thinking of the J-Curve (and I’m not going to go through the whole J-Curve), there’s a death and resurrection. Have you seen some of that in your own marriage over the years?

Ann: Well, you have six kids.

Paul: Yes, we have six kids.

Ann: And you’ve talked about Kim. Share a little bit about Kim.

Jill: Well, when she was born in ’81, we knew right away that Kim was going to be different than our other three kids we already had. When she was 18, we finally found out she had a deletion in one of her chromosomes. I explained it to my mom that there’s a forest, and Kim’s had one tree cut down.

Kim has Autism, and she uses a device to talk. She’s very good at it. She won’t let me go near it, because she knows I’ll mess up the machine. It’s a computer. She has a wonderful sense of humor. She loves Jesus. She’s very tuned in to where I am, where people are, next to her. It’s beautiful.

Dave: But has that been, for a marriage—and she still lives with you, so—

Jill: —oh, yes! We’re together. We’re not empty nesters.

Dave: Right.

Jill: We are so thankful. We are so, so thankful. One day, when I was walking two of our golden retrievers—I always memorized a verse before the kids were born, kind of to get me through the grueling pains of having a baby.

Ann: Yes.

Jill: Kim’s verse was, “No harm will come to them.” This was like a claw in my brain, because there was a lot of harm.

Ann: What do you mean by “harm?”

Jill: Life was so hard for her. It was really hard in school.

Ann: Yes.

Jill: Spitballs thrown on her; people assuming she couldn’t learn, when she really loved to learn. School was a battleground in so many ways.

Paul: The church got hard, too.

Jill: Yes, to the point that I went back to school and became a Special Ed teacher—

Dave: —did you?

Jill: —because I knew both sides, parental and teaching. I wanted to do that.

Dave: Yes. How was church hard?

Paul: When you suffer in some way, your world narrows. You just don’t have capacity to reach out, and our church, which we love, loved reaching out, and Jill was one of those people who reached out. And now, she was in a position where she was isolated, and so some people would think of that as ingrown.

Dave: Yes.

Jill: And Kim was really sick in the beginning.

Paul: And we were good at things where God answered prayer quickly. We weren’t as good where God drew you into death and into suffering that wouldn’t go away.

Ann: Yes.

Paul: It might be a general weakness of the church, particularly the American church, and so, Jill felt isolated.

Ann: So Jill, you’re a person—you bring life. You carry life and joy wherever you go, so for you to be isolated had to be hard, and to feel like you’re fighting on Kim’s behalf, because no one else seemed to be on her side in some ways maybe.

Jill: I think it’s that long-term suffering. People are okay at short-term.

Ann: Yes.

Jill: Like you ripped your bicep. “Oh, I’m sorry.” You have surgery, and you’re better in six months.

Dave and Ann: Yes.

Jill: But that long haul—

And when I looked around in our church, there weren’t that many people who were affected by disability. So, at one point, years later, my daughter, Courtney (my oldest one), gave me a gift of the New Testament, and in the Gospels, she used a Sharpie knife, and she cut out all the parts of the Gospels that had to do with disability. I should have brought it. It’s incredible. There are shreds of pages left. That’s how much the Gospels discuss—

Dave: It was her way to show you it’s everywhere in the Bible.

Jill: And I’ll hold up the Bible, and I’ll say, “Well, is this Bible complete?”

“Well, of course it’s not.” And I’ll say, “The church is not complete without disability, just as this Word is not complete.” But back to that story; I want to finish the story, and then we can go off again. So 18 years later, I was walking our two dogs.

Ann: Eighteen years after—

Jill: —after Kim was born. And I was walking down this hill, and it was like a Kodak moment. I don’t know if you all have Kodak moments.

Dave: We’re old enough to remember Kodak.

Jill: The picture is in your mind. You’ll never forget it. You don’t need to have a paper that shows you the picture. I was walking down, and I heard God say, “What you meant for Kim, I meant for your whole family. No harm will come to them.” And God used Kim in our family and continues to use Kim. She’s such a gift.

I remember the night she was born. Again, I almost heard God say, “You have two ways to go, Jill. You’re going to go on your own to the left, or you’re going to the right, and you’re going to follow me.” I said, “Okay.”

Ann: I’m thinking of the family who’s right in the middle of learning their child has a disability. I’ve talked to many that feel so alone, so isolated; that the church has, in some ways, forgotten them. Tell us how this has been something that God has—it’s been a blessing for your family.

Jill: It’s interesting, because we had to all surrender time and space for Kim. She has Autism. So, just to give you an idea: when we went to the circus, we didn’t have much money, so when we got tickets, it was a big deal. So, we had hyped up the circus.

Ann: Yes, there are eight of you going to the circus? Everybody went?

Jill: Yes. This is in a squeaky minivan that smoked. [Laughter] So, we’re all psyched, and we go in, and she has this incredible meltdown, and we all had to leave.

Ann: Oooooohhhhh.

Jill: This is just one tiny thing but multiplied over and over and over again. And we all had to leave. And the kids learned love.

Ann: And patience.

Jill: Yes. She’s just taught us how to love. Andrew works in education; he works with kids who really have needs. Emily is a nurse. Kim touched all of our lives.

Ann: She shaped a lot of their vocations, even.

Jill: Yes. You know when I prayed “no harm will come to her/them,” it really was our family. And Paul and I? Lord, have mercy.

Dave: Yes, I want to know that.

Jill: Oh, my.

Dave: Four decades; how has it affected your marriage?

Ann: Was it hard in the beginning? You said the J-Curve; that’s where we started the conversation, where you go down.

Paul: You know, you do adjust. In ’81 Kim was born, but by ’90 or ’91, money was gone. I had been working in the inner city, and then in missions, and we didn’t have a lot of money. God took us through a lot of stuff. I think Jill was really feeling the isolation, and also, she was feeling the culture of the church that was drawn to shiny things. Kim and her effect on our family was not a shiny thing.

Jill: No. She brought a little bit of dust. [Laughter] She continues to bring dust, kind of like that character in Peanuts.

Paul: There were so many good things God did, even during those years; but for me, particularly, it was learning to love a wife under stress. Kim, you can kind of figure that out. But to learn to love Jill in new ways, and I took this “Jesus Sabbatical,” I call it now, in ’91, where I saw just little basic things about how Jesus loved, like He looked at people. So, when I looked at Jill prior to that, in my heritage, I could see what was wrong, as opposed to: “Wait a minute. Don’t judge; just look. Be aware of her. Be aware of her world.””

Dave: See.

Paul: See.

Dave: You have it on your shirt right now. “See.”

Paul: Yes. See Jill. See her world. Don’t come in with judgments; receive her. And part of that was to incarnate, to step in her shoes. Hold off on the advice, and just look. I still am amazed that she doesn’t necessarily want my advice, because it’s really good. [Laughter]

Dave: It’s really good. I feel the same way about Ann. “I just gave you some of the best advice that anyone will ever give you.”

Ann: I was never looking for the advice. I wanted you to see me.

Jill: As Paul says, “Can I give you a little of a suggestion?” “No! No!” I’m like, “Okay.”

Dave: Well Paul, keep going, because I remember the last time you were here that thought was so good. Just finish this, though. See; feel—is what I hear, but you said, “Feel the compassion.” Yes.

Paul: There is this pattern in the Gospels of Jesus, that Luke has particularly strong; Jesus looks, He feels compassion, and then He acts. In my scholarly Reformed heritage, we looked and gave advice; you know, gave good, moral advice.

Jill: Absolutely, absolutely. [Laughter] To the T.

Ann: I’m thinking about that, Jill. You’re home with six kids.

Jill: It was nuts.

Ann: It had to be absolutely crazy.

Dave: It wasn’t just six kids. It’s five plus one with a disability.

Jill: Yes, and not just that. This might be edited with the people in that little room that I’m looking at. [Laughter] Between you and me, and it could be more people, because I think it’s hysterical. We decided after Kim, that’s it, of course. So then comes along Andrew. [Laughter] I thought I had done my part. So, then two years after that, Paul did his part, and I got pregnant with the sixth.

Ann: Come on!

Jill: Exactly! To the point that I called the urologist at eleven o’clock at night. Oh, this is very funny! So, we had people over for dinner, because I was trying to be a good—

Ann: —you’re trying to be a good wife.

Jill: I’m really trying, Paul! You suggested to have the people over. I tried.

Ann: “The people!”

Jill: I had the people over, and I’m signing to him, because Kim learned sign language; and I’m signing to him that I think I was pregnant, and Paul said, “That’s impossible.” (He signed.) We’re at either end of the table.

Dave: You’re signing?

Ann: Wait, are the people there?

Paul: Yes.

Jill: We almost literally take the people by their pants and shirt and throw them out the front door. [Laughter] Got rid of them, and Paul—

Ann: —what made you bring it up while the people were there at the table?

Paul: It was silent. We could.

Jill: The chicken. I had chicken, and I gagged.

Dave: Ohhhh.

Ann: That’s it.

Jill: And I’m like, “Oh, my word.” My eyes get big as saucers, and I’m like, “Oh, my goodness,” and I started sweating. I’m even sweating now, just talking about it. [Laughter] Like, “NO WAY!” and Paul said, “Don’t worry about it. I know the drugstore that’s open 24/7.” At that point, there were very few. So he said, “I’ll just get the kit.” So, we get the kit. This has to be edited. We get the kit, and Paul says, “Here, just tinkle in this. We won’t even wait for morning. It’ll take three minutes to turn aqua—these chairs. These chairs, like three seconds.

Ann: Noooo.

Jill: I slid down the bathroom wall, slid. I’m like “You have to be kidding,” still holding the vial.

Dave: Really?

Jill: Oops. Yes. And so, everything in our life was nuts.

Ann: Tell me, in that moment, as you slid down the wall, and you’re sitting on the floor, tell me what’s going on in your head.

Jill: “Really?” That’s what was going on. “Real—Oh—” I was speechless. Speechless.

Paul: Like, “We can’t do it.”

Jill: Like, “Oh, my word!” And at that point—I’ll take the clock way back. When Kim was one, she was up eight times a night.

Ann: Ohhhh.

Jill: And screaming, not like just up and rolling around; so that was part of that Autism. Forty years ago, Autism wasn’t as known.

Ann: No, yes.

Dave: Right.

Jill: Do you know what I mean? It really was not, so we broke the ice in lots of things. We could be here forever. In school, there was not education for a kid with autism, there wasn’t a one-on-one, there was no communication device. We brought it all into our public school. But when Kim was one, prior to me having Kimberly, we had a neighbor [who] was a Jewish gal, a beautiful woman. Her name was Carolyn.

She came up to me when I was washing the car, and she said to me, and all the three kids were in the driveway playing—not fighting, they were playing—and their clothes matched. This is how I needed Jesus. And we didn’t have money, so I made them. Can you imagine? Okay, hello.

Dave: It’s just a little thing you just threw out there. You’re washing the car.

Jill: In the morning.

Dave: Because there weren’t car washes.

Jill: With the kids clean and matching.

Dave: So, you did it yourself. Yes.

Jill: With their shoes on the right feet. And I turned around, and Carolyn said, “Jill, how do you do this?” And I said, “You know, Carolyn, I just wake up in the morning, and I decide I’m going to do this, and I do it.” And then I had Kim, and Jesus taught me, “No, Jill, you do because I’ve let you do. I give you the strength to do.” And so, after getting up eight times a night for a year, it took that long for Jesus to break my will. I remember nursing her, and the tears just hit. My tears just hit her cheeks, and I said, “Okay, I’m on for the ride.”

Ann: Wow.

Jill: It has been a ride.

Ann: That act of surrender.

Jill: It’s really been a ride.

Dave: I’m hearing you, Jill, and I’m thinking there are listeners that are getting up at night, whether it’s a child or maybe their marriage is just blowing up—

Ann: —or a diagnosis. So many things.

Jill: So many things and so much—

Dave: —they’re just feeling what you felt, and they want to quit, and they want to scream at God. You’re saying God is right there.

Ann: Talk to them. Talk to that person.

Jill: He is so there. He is so present. And you know, when you’re so close to something, you can’t see it. Even if you pick up a plant, and you bring it so close to yourself, you can’t identify it. You just see the color. And Jesus is so close, and He’s got it, and He’s for us. You just know: “All things work together for good.” It’s interesting—I just keep bouncing around, if that’s okay.

Ann: Yes.

Jill: This is part of this. In your marriage, you just have marriage, not married, waiting to get married, wherever we all are, it’s crazy now, as there’s just so much stuff going on. We had a daughter, Ashley, our second daughter, who’s in heaven now. Have you talked to them about Ashley?

Paul: Yes, briefly.

Ann: Share a little bit. What happened to her?

Jill: Okay. Ash had colon cancer. She was diagnosed at 36, [with a] 90 percent chance of making it. Anyway, after six years and an awful lot, God took her home. She has three kids, and a husband who loved her. My faith—I have faith, but I was crushed. I cried out; I fasted; I did it all, and I knew He heard me, and I let go of her, but I was crushed. And I remember, I was out in the barnyard.

The barnyard is kind of like my church, and it’s a great place to be, because it’s quiet. You can think. No phone; I don’t have a phone on me. I was just crushed, and then, my dog, Anaiah, got cancer. She was diagnosed with this crazy cancer; very, very lethal. I said to the Lord—Ashley’s life hit so many people; so many [that] I’ll never know the ripples of her life. Her service was just lines and lines and lines; and I remember saying—“Well, Lord, it’s me and the dog. It’s just me and the dog.”

Ann: Oooh.

Jill: “Can you please just help this dog live to be 13?” She was nine at the time. “Help this dog be 13,” and then I said, “Okay, God, but 12 is okay.” Anaiah just had her 12th birthday, and she’s known at the vet as “The Miracle Dog.” The neat thing is her name, Anaiah, is a Hebrew word that means—and I did not know this when she was born, and Ashley was not sick. Her name means “God answers.”

He does answer! So, if you’re alone, He’s got it. He’s got it. He’s with you. He’s for you. There’s no thing that will keep Him apart. No thing.

Dave: Hang on.

Shelby: When I hear stories like that, it reminds me that God hears our prayers and wants us to approach Him with the big stuff and the little stuff. He cares about the intimate details of our lives. He cares about all of it—the big and the little things. So, go to Him and offer your life to Him in every way. You won’t regret it when you do.

I’m Shelby Abbott, and you’ve been listening to Dave and Ann Wilson with Jill and Paul Miller on FamilyLife Today. Jill has written a book called Finding Jesus on Upside-Down Days. This is really a book that intertwines the beauty of something like farm life with profound reflections on faith and walking with God. You can get your copy right now by going online to FamilyLifeToday.com, or you can find it in our show notes. Or just give us a call at 800-358-6329; again, that number is 800-“F” as in family, “L” as in life, and then the word, “TODAY.”

You know, we’ve been talking about family today. Earlier this week, we had Dr. Gary Chapman on, who wrote a book called Five Traits of a Healthy Family: Steps You Can Take to Grow Closer, Communicate Better, and Change the World Together as a Family. So, this book by Dr. Chapman is going to be our gift to you when you give to the ministry of FamilyLife.

You can get your copy simply by going online and donating at FamilyLifeToday.com and clicking on the “Donate Now” button at the top of the page. Or you can give us a call. Again that number is 800-“F” as in family, “L” as in life, and then the word, “TODAY.” Or you can feel free to drop us a donation in the mail if you’d like. Our address is FamilyLife, 100 Lake Hart Drive, Orlando, Florida 32832.

Now, tomorrow, Paul and Jill Miller are going to be back with Dave and Ann Wilson to share their journey of creating inclusive Bible studies for individuals with intellectual disabilities. It was all inspired by their daughter Kim’s Autism. We hope you’ll join us for that.

On behalf of Dave and Ann Wilson, I’m Shelby Abbott. We will see you back next time for another edition of FamilyLife Today.

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