Growing Older without Growing Old: Dennis & Barbara Rainey

David: Hey, there; David Robbins here. Before we get started today, I just have to say I cannot wait for you to hear from a special couple we have in studio with us today. It is Dennis and Barbara Rainey, who got us started on the journey of FamilyLife^® almost

50 years ago as our co-founders. I’m so grateful to have them back. I know you will enjoy hearing their familiar voices and some of the stories and process they’re in as they’re continuing to grow and helping to change their corner of the world. So enjoy hearing, again, from Dennis and Barbara Rainey.

Dennis: How you live now determines how you will become older later. You don’t prepare for becoming older when you’re 60 or 70, although it’s never too late to start: “How do I want to finish the race?”

Shelby: Welcome to FamilyLife Today, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I’m Shelby Abbott, and your hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson. You can find us at FamilyLifeToday.com.

Ann: This is FamilyLife Today.

Dave: Well, I am pretty excited about today.

Ann: So am I.

Dave: Yes, we have Dennis and Barbara Rainey BACK! You’re back in the FamilyLife Today studios.

Barbara: Yes, it feels really good.

Dave: Does it really?

Ann: I’m so happy.

Barbara: Yes!

Dennis: It feels absolutely awesome.

Dave: Does it?

Dennis: I’ve been watching you guys from out in the control room; and hey, run with it, baby. You’ve got the stuff. [Laughter]

Dave: Well, we learned from the best.

Dennis: I have to tell you this story.

Dave: Here we go; [Laughter] I knew he was just going to take over.

Dennis: Yes, I am going to take over on this one.

Dave: Hey, Bruce; can you turn his mike down, or off, or something? [Laughter]

Dennis: I was in Orlando. I spoke here to a group called Kingdom Advisors, a big convention they had; and Barbara and I concluded it. After it was over, a radio listener came up, and she said, “Well, I just have to tell you: I listened to you for years—you and Barbara—for years; and when you went off the air, I was bummed. But I decided I’d listen to Dave and Ann.”

Dave: By the way, we were pretty bummed, too. [Laughter]

Dennis: No you weren’t.

She said, “It’s like, ‘Dennis and Barbara who?’” [Laughter]

Barbara: She said, “We love them; they’re so good!”

Dennis: “We love them; we think they’re the best.”

Barbara: That was really fun.

Dennis: I thought, “That’s a great story that I want to use on air.” What better way to join you than to say—

Ann: —at least, there was one person. [Clapping]

Dave: It was probably your mom. [Laughter]

But anyway, if you don’t know, this is the founder and president couple of FamilyLife. We’re sitting in these chairs because of you guys; we’re not here apart from you. This job is a glorious job for us. We’d never be here without you, so thank you.

Dennis: Well, none of us would be here without God’s favor—

Ann: Yes.

Dennis: —and His ordering our steps. Wouldn’t you agree, sweetheart?

Barbara: Very much, yes.

Dave: Yes; I can’t wait to talk about what we’re going to talk about. But I do want to say this: we have a unique perspective on this job, I think.

Dennis: I would think you might.

Dave: Because there were people that came on staff at our church—and I was a founder of that church—and they came on staff. You can tell: “Hey, they’re just glad to be there.” They’re walking in buildings they didn’t build, and they’ve never had the sweat that we did. You’re glad they’re there, but we know—being a founder of a church; you were founder of this—we know there were sleepless nights; and there were nights you didn’t know if God would provide and all those things.

You laid it all on the line. So every time we walk in the studio, we never walk in here, like, “Hey, we’ve got a good thing going.’” We think, “They built something we didn’t build; we are, literally, on their shoulders”; and we are so humbled.

Ann: —so grateful.

Barbara: That’s so sweet.

Dave: We fall on our face and just thank God for what you did. Our mission statement, when we took over, between ourselves, was: “Don’t mess this up. [Laughter] Just don’t mess this up.” That’s not a very inspiring mission statement.

Ann: We’ve told you this, Dennis; but the very first recording day, we laid on the floor of the studio—and we both were holding hands—laying on our stomachs on the floor.

Dave: We weren’t on our knees; we were on our faces,—

Ann: —saying, “Lord, we don’t know what we’re doing. We can’t do this apart from You.”

Dennis: Yes, sure.

Ann: And I know that you guys have felt that, too: “We can’t do this apart from You.”

Dennis: Yes.

Ann: But we’re excited about this topic today.

Dave: Yes, I got to hear some of your thoughts last year in November about growing older but not becoming old. I had never even heard that term before when you laid that out with about 17 of us in a hunting lodge in South Dakota. I took notes, and I’m not going to look at my notes; I’m just going to say, “Tell us about this journey.”

Ann: Well, let me add this, too, Dave; because I feel like—as we’re traveling, speaking, talking to couples—as their kids leave, and they’re empty nesters, there’s this loss: loss of identity, loss of purpose.

Dennis: Yes.

Ann: I’ve had so many couples say, “We don’t know what we’re doing anymore. What are we supposed to be doing with our lives?” I think today is going to answer that question.

Dave: Yes.

Dennis: Well, it’s our hope it would. This journey started for us way back in the 1970s when I snuck in a seminary class at Dallas Seminary that Dr. Howard Hendricks taught. He talked about this elderly woman in her 90s; and she would greet him by saying, “Well, Prof, what’s the best five books you’ve read in the last six months?" He said, “That woman was more alive than a lot of my students that I have at the seminary.” [Laughter] He made a deposit in my mind. He made a deposit of thinking about: “How do you go through the process of growing older without becoming old?”

Barbara: And there’s a big difference.

Dennis: There is a big difference; and if you aren’t purposeful about this, it’s going to happen.

Dave: Right.

Dennis: It absolutely is going to happen.

I had a conversation last week with a friend of mine named Scott. His dad had just died at the age of 90. Scott had gone to his [dad’s] office after the funeral was over, and he just looked around at everything. He found this camo backpack. In [my] phone call with him, he said, “Do you know what I found in that backpack? My dad was 90 when he died, okay?” He said, “Textbooks.” He was taking two college courses.

Ann: What?!

Barbara: Taking classes.

Dave: —in his 90s.

Dennis: —in his 90s. And his mom mowed the lawn for the church they attended, and his dad kept the place up a bunch. He was purposeful all the way to the finish line. This was an executive, who founded one of the major corporations in America—his dad was.

Dave: Wow.

Dennis: So I thought, “What a great image of that backpack.” My friend Scott has that backpack in his office—I haven’t seen it yet—I’m going to go see it, here, in the next few weeks.

Dave: It’s the image to say: “Don’t quit.”

Ann: I think Barbara is on the track.

Dennis: Yes.

Ann: She’s in seminary.

Dennis: I was going to say that; I’m glad you did.

Ann: Yes, she’s going to be in her 90s, getting her doctorate.

Dennis: She better not be. [Laughter]

Barbara: Yes, he doesn’t want me to go—

Dennis: I look forward to eating her cooking, again, someday.

Barbara: Yes, he doesn’t want me to keep going. [Laughing]

Dave: Well, since we’re talking about this in this state—we’re in Florida—this is, for a lot of people, the dream: “When I’m finally done, I can just go there and play pickleball every day,”—which, by the way, I love to play pickleball—but that’s sort of the goal, isn’t it?

Dennis: It is.

Ann: You get a little amped up about this, Dennis.

Dennis: If that’s your values, this is Nirvana right here. But if you’re about the kingdom’s work—about what God’s up to—which, was it Amy Carmichael, who said, “We have only a few hours before sunset to win the victories, but all of eternity to celebrate them”?

Barbara: It’s true.

Dennis: She made the statement that it is, in time, that we make deposits for eternity. I think, at the heart of it, is growing/the concept of growing. We need to be growing when we’re young, younger, middle-aged, and as we move into our 50s, 60s, 70s. We never stop needing to learn, and growing, as we look at the finish line.

Dave: Yes; so how is it for you guys since you retired from FamilyLife? [Laughter] I’m laughing, but have you heard that? Because people walk up to us, in the Detroit area, and say, “Hey, so now that you’re retired, how’s life?” I say, “I’m working harder now than I ever worked in my life!”

Barbara: We need to put our brains together and come up with a better word for retirement, because that’s—

Ann: —a new word.

Dave: I just say, “It’s re-tired: I put new tires on, and we’re going. We’re going faster than ever.” [Laughter]

Dennis: That’s a good one.

Barbara: I like that, too.

Dave: Re-tire.

Dennis: I call it “refirement”; so refiring, heading toward the finish line with fresh fuel/fresh fire. I think God has an assignment for every living person—I do—you wouldn’t want to miss that. You wouldn’t want to arrive in heaven and find out you missed His calling for your life.

Dave: Now, have you slowed down though? You’re doing different things.

Dennis: Right.

Dave: You’re not walking in a building every day; you’re not leading a big, huge organization. Do you feel like you’ve slowed down?

Barbara: No, we haven’t. But I think what you just said is the important ingredient; because I think we tend to think—when we’ve done this main part of our lives, whether it’s raising kids or the main job—then we’re done. I think God’s purpose for us changes. I think it evolves as we grow, and He takes us in new frontiers. You’ve heard about men, who are retired, who work in schools; or women, who are retired, who do different things. I think we just need to expand our vision for what God might have for us in a season that doesn’t include full-time employment in a career. And I think that takes some creativity; I think it takes focus. It’s not going to come in an envelope in the mail, and say, “Here’s your next assignment”; you have to look for it; you have to pray.

You have to think through: “What has God equipped me to do?” and “Where can I use these gifts for the kingdom and for serving the church, the body of Christ?” That may take some time and energy, but He has that for all of us.

Ann: Tell us what you would both be feeling, had you really retired—and now, you’re just kind of sitting around, piddling about—what would you feel in your heart, Dennis? Would you be frustrated?

Dennis: I think I’d feel purposeless—I think I’d feel like I didn’t have a destination; I didn’t have a mission I was on—something I was about that was worth getting up in the morning for. And I think I’d become lazy. I think there’s a lot of things that could happen.

I have this written down: “How you live now determines how you will become older later.”

Dave: What does that mean?

Dennis: Well, it means you don’t prepare for becoming older when you’re 60 or 70, although it’s never too late to start.

Dave: Right.

Dennis: But you get a vision for your life: “How do I want to finish the race?” Barbara and I want to finish it together. We just celebrated our 51st anniversary. We also celebrate 27 grandkids—

Ann: [Laughter] Congrats!

Dennis: —6 married kids—and so we have all kinds of tensions on us. But I don’t think God designed faith to be without tension. It’s impossible to please God without faith, and I think the nature of life is to give us obstacles and things that we have to confront. We have to decide how we are going to live: “Are we going to walk by faith and trust God?—get to know Him?—and make sure we’re living out His best in the midst of these circumstances? Or are we going to put the gear in neutral and coast?”

Barbara: Yes, I don’t think God ever called us to live in neutral; and I don’t think He designed us to sit back and twiddle our thumbs. The question you asked Dennis; my immediate thought was: “Boredom.”

Ann: You’d be bored.

Dennis: Boredom; that’s correct.

Barbara: If I didn’t have something to get up and do, I would be bored. Now, I’m the type that’s going to find something to do; because I just don’t like sitting around, so I would find something to do. I just think it’s really super important to be productive, because the natural tendency is to become lazy. The natural tendency is to quit trying, to quit working hard at anything; and that’s just contrary to what God made us to do.

Dave: So Dennis, talk to us: “How do we grow older and not become old?”

Ann: —especially, younger.

Dennis: There was a little gem that Barbara and I found in the book of John, the last chapter in John. Now, think about it—it’s the last chapter—these are some of Christ’s last words.

Barbara, why don’t you share with our audience what we just discovered in this passage as Jesus had a confrontation with Peter?

Dave: Yes.

Dennis: Yes, John 21.

Barbara: Yes, you know that one, don’t you?

Dave: Yes.

Dennis: Hang with us on this, because some of the best advice you’ll ever hear comes from the mouth of the Savior about growing older at the end of this passage.

Barbara: The background of this passage I think is really cool, because this is after the resurrection. Jesus appears; and then, sometimes, He doesn’t appear. The disciples are out on the boat—they’re doing what they always have done—they’re out there fishing, and they’re not catching anything.

Who knows how long it’s been since they’ve seen Jesus?—if it’s been a couple days or if it’s been a week, but they’re out there fishing. They see this person on land, and they don’t know who it is. He asks them about their catch; and then, they go in [to shore]. He’s made breakfast for them—He has a fire built on the shore, and the flames are growing—and He’s cooking fish. Essentially, He says, “Come have breakfast with Me.” They sit, and they begin to talk.

And then, after they have breakfast, they begin hearing from Jesus; He says: “Feed My sheep,” and “Take care of My sheep.” He has a specific conversation with Peter; and He said to Peter three different times, “Simon, son of John, do you love Me?” and then He says, “Feed My sheep,” and “Shepherd My sheep.” And then, at the very end, on the third time, He says, “Simon, son of John, do you love Me?” And Peter was grieved; because He asked him a third time, “Do you love Me?” And Peter said to Jesus, “Lord, You know all things; You know that I love You.” And Jesus said to him, “Tend my sheep.”

And then, Jesus said, “Truly, truly I say to you, when you were younger you used to gird yourself and walk wherever you wished. But when you grow old, you will stretch out your hands and someone else will gird you,”—meaning dress you—“and will bring you where you do not wish to go.”

Now, think about the definition of getting older. Does that not sound like getting older? You get where you can’t dress yourself; you can’t go where you want to go; and someone else takes you where you don’t want to go. I remember, in my mother’s later years, when her back door neighbor—who was her really good friend—came over one day, and said, “I’m moving.” My mom said, “Where?” And she said, “My kids think it’s time for me to move.” They packed her up, and they moved her; and didn’t really even ask her. I didn’t even hardly know the woman—but the heartache that I felt for her—that she was being taken someplace she didn’t want to go. Well, this is what Jesus was talking about.

Dennis: Before you share the rest of what Jesus said, a friend of mine—Dr. John Hannah, who has a think a double PhD in church history; a brilliant teacher at Dallas Seminary—I was sitting, talking with him one afternoon. He just made a very profound statement about getting older; he said, “As you get older, your world shrinks; so your options are reduced. Your world gets smaller; how are you going to handle it?”

Dave: When you said that, Dennis, I thought, “I know;—

Dennis: Yes.

Dave: —“we’re there: the world shrinks;—

Dennis: It does shrink.

Dave: —"opportunities shrink; everything shrinks. And you don’t like it!”

Barbara: No; no, you don’t like it.

Dennis: Right. So now, just brace yourself for Jesus’ words. “How do you handle this?”—He has two words; listen to this.

Barbara: Verse 19: “Now Jesus said this signifying by what kind of death he [Peter] would glorify God.” So that’s sort of a parenthetical little statement that John puts in there for readers, like us, to know.

But then, Jesus turned back to Peter. Immediately after He said these declarations about—“You’re going to be taken where you don’t want to go,” and “Someone else will gird you,”—“He said to him, ‘Follow Me.’” In the context of Jesus’ statement, in verse 17, about getting old—that someone’s going to take you where you don’t want to go, someone’s going to dress you, all of these things are going to happen—“You still follow Me.”

And when we realize the context of that—that Jesus was saying, “This is what’s going to happen to you when you get old; I’m giving you advanced notice. But in the midst of all that, as hard as it’s going to be, keep following Me.” The most important thing we’ve realized, in getting old, is continuing to be a disciple: “Don’t stop being a disciple,” “Don’t stop following Jesus,” “Don’t stop walking with Him,” “Don’t stop confessing your sin,” “Don’t get lazy in the Christian life.” I think that’s everybody’s tendency—is to get lazy in the Christian life—we think, “I’ve been there; I’ve done that; I deserve a break.” We don’t deserve a break.

Dennis: No, no.

Barbara: God has called us to follow Him.

Ann: And not just because He’s called us, but it brings us life.

Barbara: Well, sure; yes.

Ann: When we walk with Him, there’s such fulfillment.

Dennis: Oh, it’s an adventure.

Ann: Yes.

Dennis: And what is a disciple? Do you know the essence of a disciple?

Dave: —learner.

Dennis: —learner; that’s exactly right. Now, think about that.

Dave: “Never stop learning.”

Dennis: Jesus is saying, “How are you going to run your race all the way to the finish line?—keep learning; keep getting to know Me.”

Barbara: “Keep learning”; yes.

Dave: “Keep growing.”

Ann: That’s good.

Dennis: “Keep growing.” That’s really the “Aha” for all of this with us. It’s kind of like we came in the back door of this, because I didn’t really start out here when I was studying this. I just kept chewing on it, thinking, “How do we do this thing of not becoming old?—a codger, a gripey, complaining…”

Barbara: Who wants to be around people who are unhappy, and gripey, and miserable, and all of those things? I don’t think that’s what God has for us.

Dave: Yes, I think what you said earlier: “If you’re not intentional, you become old.”

Barbara: Exactly.

Dave: You just become old.

Ann: —because there aren’t opportunities.

Dennis: You’re fighting gravity.

Ann: Yes.

Dave: Yes, you’re going to go there. It’s like the Weekend to Remember^®: “You’re going to drift toward isolation; you have to fight for oneness.”

I’m thinking, when you said that earlier—“Be a disciple to the very end,” as you’re reading from John—I thought, “That’s my mission statement. I don’t want to quit before He calls me. I want to run to the finish line, just like He said, ‘Follow Me,’ to the very end.”

Ann: We only have a few minutes left, and you’re full of stories. You both have stories of mentors you have watched do this well, who are inspiring. I’m wondering if you could just close with one of these stories of one of the people you’ve watched grow old well—not growing old—they’ve gotten better. Could you end with one of those great stories?

Dennis: Dr. Bill Bright was the founder of the organization, Campus Crusade for Christ^®, as you guys know. Bill showed us how to live when he lived; but maybe, some of the greatest lessons he taught were as he was dying of pulmonary fibrosis. If you know anything about this disease, you literally strangle to death—you can’t breathe—the lungs harden up; they don’t do the job of absorbing oxygen into the blood stream.

We did over 6,000 broadcasts when we led this radio ministry. His broadcast is one of the top five—

Dave and Ann: Really?

Dennis: —only months before he died. He was on oxygen; you could hear the machine in the background, occasionally. As he was in the process of dying, do you know what he did? He gave me about 15 to 20 things to do. [Laughter] All of a sudden, I stepped out of the room, took off my mask, and I was outside there, and thought, “What did he just do to me? He just delegated all these assignments to me.”

I didn’t put my mask back on—I just burst the door open—and I said, “Bill Bright, you’re a mess! You just gave me a bunch of stuff to do, and you’re moving on to heaven.” And he threw his hands up in the air, and threw them down on his lap, and just laughed, sitting up, just like, “Attaboy, son; keep going. You’re not done yet, so don’t quit.”

Dave: So that was in the last weeks of his life?

Dennis: Last weeks of his life; we taped a number of broadcasts that we did with him. Some people teach you how to live; some people teach you how to die; and some people do both. That was a sweet, sweet relationship; because when I went to work for him, it was selfish—I just wanted to be on mission—and he did a great job of talking about the Great Commission and fulfilling God’s purpose for your life. Now, I’ve served on staff for 53 years: no regrets; absolutely, no regrets.

Shelby: I’ve heard so many stories about Dr. Bright over the years, and I’m always in awe of how he finished well. He ran the race well, yes; and he finished well. I hope that that story that Dennis just shared with us is one that makes you think, “I want to finish well, too”; because it certainly makes me feel like that.

I’m Shelby Abbott; and you’ve been listening to Dave and Ann Wilson, with Dennis and Barbara Rainey, on FamilyLife Today. You can hear Dennis Rainey’s interview with

Dr. Bill Bright in his last days of his battle with pulmonary fibrosis, a disease that eventually took his life. You can go to FamilyLifeToday.com in the show notes and find the link there to Dennis Rainey’s conversation with the founder of Cru^®, Dr. Bill Bright.

I hear stories like the ones that have been shared today, and it really just makes me so grateful for the ministry of FamilyLife—that’s been going strong, now, for 40 years—and how God has used it to impact marriages, parenting, families all over the country and all over the world. I hope that you have been impacted by it as well.

This month, the month of August, we are looking to raise $250,000 in new funds by the end of this month. So if you’ve been impacted by FamilyLife, the ministry of FamilyLife Today, or a Weekend to Remember, or any kind of effort by this ministry has helped you—has helped your marriage, has helped you in your parenting, has helped you walk with Jesus even closer—I’d love for you to jump in and partner with us in order to continue to make this ministry one that impacts marriages and families all over the world.

You can do that simply by going online to FamilyLifeToday.com and making a donation there. Or you can give us a call at 800-358-6329 to make your donation. Again, that number is 800-“F” as in family, “L” as in life, and then the word, “TODAY.” And thank you so much for being a part of the solution when it comes to this ministry. We are so grateful for you, who support us, and make it possible for us to reach families and communities around the world.

Now, tomorrow, Dennis and Barbara Rainey are back again with the Wilsons to talk about continual devotion to Jesus, and staying active as you get older, really just aging with purpose. That’s coming up tomorrow; we hope you’ll join us. On behalf of Dave and Ann Wilson, I’m Shelby Abbott. We will see you back next time for another edition of FamilyLife Today.

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