Childhood Grief & Family Disruption: Scott Kedersha & Ron Deal

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Childhood Grief and Family Disruption

Guests:Ron Deal and Scott Kedersha

From the series:Childhood Grief and Family Disruption (Day 1 of 1)

Air date:October 2, 2024

Scott:When I look back on my life, growing up, I think my mom did the absolute best that she could. I have no frustration, resentment. It was just, I’d say, superficial on the way that we communicated about life. And I don’t blame her. I think she’s just trying to get by and figure out: “How do we pay the bills and get kids to school?” And so it was not a malicious thing, but we just never had a depth to our relationship.

Shelby: Welcome to FamilyLife Today, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I’m Shelby Abbott, and your hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson. You can find us at FamilyLifeToday.com.

Ann:This is FamilyLife Today!

Dave:Alright, Ann, I’ve got a question for you.

Ann: Okay.

Dave: Do you think it’s helpful for people to look back at their childhood, and think, “My parents did the best they could”? I want to answer that for our kids, if they’re listening, “Yes, you should do that.”

Ann: I think that that’s a good thing. But I don’t think we all come to that realization quickly. Like now, at this age, I can say my parents did the best they could; but I think a lot of us go through a phase that we see ourselves as being broken. We think, “Whose fault is that? Oh, I know; it’s my parents’ fault!” And so I think we can blame them, or blame our past circumstances on different things or people. But I think that’s a grace statement: “My parents did the best they could.”

Dave:And I think it takes time [for] healing—

Ann: —maturity.

Dave:—and maturity to get to that point. I honestly think almost every child—we did—goes through that sort of journey in their 30s.

Ann: Me, too.

Dave: It may happen in their 20s; but for us, it was in their 30s. I started questioning everything about my childhood; and it took some time to get to a point where, “You know what? It was pretty broken—divorce; blended family—but they did the best they could.” And again—

Ann: —I hope our kids will say, “They did the best they could”; because we did!

Dave:Yeah; I hope they’d say the same thing.

So why do we bring that up? Because, today, we’re going to listen to a portion of a FamilyLife Blended® podcast with Ron Deal. Many of you know this, but Ron directs our FamilyLife Blended® ministry. In fact, in just a couple of weeks, they are gathering leaders from all around the country together at the annual Summit on Stepfamily Ministry this year in Dallas, Texas. And you can, of course, still join Ron for that event; just go to SummitOnStepfamilies.com for more information.

Ann: And then, today, we’re going to hear some of Ron’s conversation with Scott Kedersha. He’s been on FamilyLife Today before.

Dave:I love this guy; I really do.

Ann: I do, too.

Dave: He’s amazing.

Ann: He’s the marriage pastor at Harris Creek Baptist Church in Waco, Texas. He’s also authored two books for engaged couples, including Ready or Knot?—spelled KNOT—and he co-hosts the popular marriage podcast, More than Roommates. So he and his wife have four sons. And Scott grew up in a blended family, which is what Ron was talking with him about.

Dave:And I would say, “Okay, if you’re not a blended family, don’t turn it off.” Sometimes, you can think that: “It doesn’t apply to me.” This will apply to you. And I guarantee: “If it doesn’t apply directly to you, you know somebody in your life who will be touched by stepfamily realities, eventually.” So here’s Ron and Scott.

[Previous FamilyLife Blended Podcast]

Ron: My goodness, Scott, it’s so good to have you with me. Thanks for being here, buddy.

Scott:Good to be here with you, Ron. I appreciate you so much and grateful for all the work you do. You’re a good friend; it’s good to be with friends.

Ron:Yeah, thank you. We are like-minded. The more I spend time with you, the more I know you’re one of my peeps.

Scott: Yes, for sure; we have the same passion.

Ron: Speaking of passions, I know one of the reasons you’re a marriage pastor is because you want to help children grow up with healthy families. You want them to have a healthy experience of marriage. You want them to have a model/a healthy model of marriage when it comes time for them to start looking for life partners. Did you have a good model for marriage when you were growing up?

Scott: Yeah, that’s a great question. I really didn’t have that, growing up. So I grew up in New Jersey—New Jersey and the northeast—and my mom’s name is Diane. She’s amazing; and she was married to Dennis, my dad. My dad died/Dennis died when I was young. So when I was four years old, he had a massive, massive heart attack. And it turned out he had something called—it’s a coarctation of the aorta—the aorta wasn’t working right, and so caused all these problems in his heart. He’s out shoveling one day in the northeast, because it snows all the time there, and just had this massive heart attack—and really, was in the hospital, in and out, for the next two years; and then, passed away—he was 39 years old when he died. I was six; one little brother, who’s two and a half years younger than me.

And so my brother Chris and I grew up in a single-parent family home for a few years with my mom. Man, those were tough years for her—really, really tough for her to lose her husband, whom she loved so much—and trying to raise us two boys in a home without a dad, trying to just pay the bills; get by; figure out how to work, and provide, and take care of us. And so I really grew up largely, from the ages of four to ten, really without a dad in the home. Even though my dad was still around for a few years, it was really from the age of four through ten that we were essentially a dad-less home; because my dad was in the hospital and then passed.

Ron: Yeah. Hey, so I know it’s hard sometimes; but I mean, what do you remember during those years?—four to ten, for you and your brother?—for you and your mom?—just your family, what was a normal day?

Scott:Yeah, I remember a lot of people coming in and helping. And so we would go home with a friend every day. In some ways, it was really normal—we played baseball, and played sports and soccer—and we’d go hang out with extended family. I know there were times that we would go spend time with my aunt and uncle, which probably gave my mom a little break from just the challenges. I definitely remember being different than a lot of people around me, who had a mom and a dad. And I didn’t have a relationship with Jesus, so I knew I was angry; I didn’t know who I was angry at.

And it was sad and hard for my mom. She was so young; she was 33 when my dad passed away.

Ron: How did grief get handled? I mean, so you remember seeing your mom sad. Do you remember feeling that way?—your brother? Did you guys talk about dad once he had passed away?—or I mean, how’d that go?

Scott:Yeah, such a good question. The way that emotions were handled is my mom would say, “Never let anyone see you cry.” And so I remember two things:

One was people saying: “You’re, now, the man of the household.” And so you’re responsible for the home—like six-years-old and seven-year-old someone—and there was no ill intent in that, but just having this weight and responsibility on me.

And then, mom telling me: “Don’t let people see you cry. Don’t let people see weakness.”

We didn’t really talk about it. There was no grief counseling; no one to come in and talk to us about it. It was just kind of like, “Hey, life moves on. We still have school, and baseball, and bills to pay; and life kind of happens and goes on.” And so we never really processed it all.

Ron: I’m sitting here—I got my family-therapist hat on—and when mom says, “Okay, here’s the rule for how to do grief: ‘Never let them see you cry.’”

She’s also telling you how she wants to handle her pain.

B) She’s telling you: “Don’t let me see you cry,” inadvertently. That’s isolating—I would think isolating you guys—from one another and from grieving forward together.

Scott:I think what it led to was a lack of depth in our relationship of talking about things that really matter. I love deep relationships and deep conversations, and I want to know what’s going on with people. I’ve been a marriage pastor for 17 years, and so I’m used to digging deep with people and love going deep myself.

And so, when I look back on my life, growing up, I think my mom did the absolute best that she could. I have no frustration, resentment. It was just, I’d say, superficial on the way that we communicated about life. And I don’t blame her. I think she’s just trying to get by and figure out: “How do we pay the bills, and get kids to school, and sign all the forms, and do all the things?” And so it was not a malicious thing, but we just never had a depth to our relationship.

Ron: Okay; so let’s pick up the backstory. So around ten, did something change?

Scott: Yeah; so probably—that’s a great question—I don’t remember how old I was; but I bet I was probably nine or ten, probably nine. And all of a sudden, this guy starts showing up at our house; and his name is Bob. He actually just passed away probably six years ago. But my mom started hanging out with Bob—and Robert, if you will—and he was a sporting goods rep. He worked as a middleman between a sporting goods company and manufacturers in a sporting goods store.

And so he would start showing up, and he knew how to connect with us. He was really, really great at that. And so he’d come to take my mom out for a date. And we didn’t really know what was going on, but we just knew they were spending time together. He was best friends with our next door neighbors. And so he was divorced—had a son and two daughters, who were great—still have a relationship with all three of them to this day. But they started hanging out with each other. He knew he was great at connecting with us, as kids: and so he’d bring a football; he’d bring a Frisbee; he’d bring us baseball cards.

Ron: I was going to say: “Sporting goods guy; he’s got access to all the good stuff.”

Scott:He did; he did. He knew how to connect. And in fact—kind of a funny story—I’ll tell long story, short; but it’s important. He would always go to these sporting goods shows. And so he’d be like the middleman between—call it Nike and Dick’s Sporting Goods—and so Nike would come out with a new product, and Dick’s would want to sell it. He would bring the new product to Dick’s, say, “Here’s what it is. You want to buy this number of them at this many stores.”

Every year they would have these big conventions, where all the manufacturers would get together with and just promote all their new stuff. And so humongous show, like at the Chicago Convention Center, and all these big convention centers. And my dad would go to these shows—and he would represent the companies—find out what’s going on; come back home with all the things everyone needs to buy at the stores.

But the coolest thing is that, every show, there are all these famous athletes that were there who represented the company. So if it’s 2023, Steph Curry is representing Under Armour; and LeBron is representing Nike. Back in the day, it was all of the best and biggest athletes. And so he would come home with a stack of signed autographs for me—personalized notes—that go, like, “Hey, Scott, I hope you have a great baseball game on Monday;—

Ron: That’s awesome!

Scott: —“you’re playing the Giants,” and it would be signed by Pete Rose. I mean, Marvin Hagler; all the best football players. And over the years, he just did a great job of collecting autographs for us; and it was just his way of building a relationship with us. And so I was like, “I don’t know who this guy is, but he’s bringing me footballs and baseballs, and autographs; and so he must be okay.” He did a really good job of building a relationship with us.

Now, fast forward, it turns out I found out—literally, in his last days of life—that he forged most of those autographs. So I don’t recommend lying to build a relationship with your kids.

Ron: Okay, pro tip for the listener and the viewer: “Don’t lie.”

Scott:Yes; “Don’t lie.”

[Studio]

Ann: Okay; wow, that was a good life lesson there. And you’re listening to FamilyLife Today. We’re listening to a portion of the Family Life Blended podcast with Ron Deal and guest, Scott Kedersha.

Dave:And I got to say, as funny as that story is, I’ve actually done that.

Ann: What?!

Dave: Often, in 33 years with the Detroit Lions, I would get confused with our kicker, Jason Hanson. We look alike, but I’m 15 years older. I remember one time, going in and out of the locker room after a game; and this woman kept saying, “Jason, Jason, give me your autograph.” And I’m like, “Ma’am, I’m not Jason.” And I went into the locker room; I came back: “Jason…” I go, “Really; I’m not Jason.” And so the third time I came out, she goes, “You’re supposed to be a Christian, and you’re lying to me!” I’m like, “Okay, give me your thing.” And I just signed it. I went in, and said, Jason, “Hey, I have to tell you I signed your name.” He goes, “Oh, I’m glad you made me look better.”

But anyway, hearing Scott talk about that, I’m glad he is laughing about it now;—

Ann: Me, too.

Dave: —because that could have been a terrible moment for [him] and his dad.

But anyway, we’re going to go back and hear Ron and Scott talk some more. You’re going to love what he shares next.

[Previous FamilyLife Blended Podcast]

Ron: You may not remember a moment—and really, I think for a lot of kids, there’s not a moment—there’s just: “I wake up one day, and I’m somehow okay with this person in my life.” Did that happen for you?

Scott:Yes, for sure. And I want to say two things: one along the way; and then one, as I look back:

Along the way, one thing I saw my dad do really well/stepdad do really well is the way he loved my mom.

And then, he—because he was on his own for a few years—he learned to do everything on his own: so he cooked; did laundry; took care of the house, the car, the yard, and vacuumed. There was no job that was beneath him; there was no job that was a woman’s job. There was no job that was “for her to do and not for me to do.” He did everything.

And I remember—I mean, that affects me, now, looking back and seeing—“Okay, there’s not stuff that Kristen does;”—my wife—”and there’s stuff that I do. There’s stuff that we do.” She might do it more often than me; because I have a full-time job, where I get paid. She’s a stay-at-home mom, who works part-time; but we do things together. And so I learned a lot from my stepdad in that there’s work that takes place in a home, and you both do it.

And I love that mentality that I grew up with—we don’t need to get into all the whole theological debate of complimentary, egalitarian, and all that—I still believe I’m the leader of our home, but we split up the job; it’s our work to do together. So I’m very thankful for that.

And then I think where the light bulb came on was when I became a follower of Jesus. I looked back, and I said, “They messed up at times, and they didn’t do things perfectly. I really do believe they loved us. My mom loves us; my stepdad loved us. They did the best that they could in spite of the challenges of my stepdad—had two new sons to love and to raise—and he still had a biological son and still had two biological daughters.”

He had the challenges of navigating co-parenting with his ex, who was really, really difficult at times. And he was dealing with the hurts from his three biological children, because mom and dad got divorced. And so when I look back, I am just so much more sympathetic and empathetic to the challenges that they walked through. They didn’t do it perfect; I don’t do it perfect, and so I could show some grace, and really be grateful, and not just focus on all the things that they did incorrectly or could have done better. I think they really did do the best they could.

Ron: You mentioned his kids. I’m curious: “How was your step-sibling relationship? Were they around your age? How’d that connection go?”

Scott:Yes, they’re all a little bit older. So my brother’s three years younger than me; and then, my step-siblings are probably anywhere from five to fifteen years older. And so we never grew up in the same home; they lived with their mom. And then, my stepbrother was already out of the house by the time they got divorced—but my stepdad and his first wife—so we never lived in the same home together. We spent time together on holidays, and that’s it.

I would not say we’ve ever been close. And then, I moved away to go to college when I was 18. I’ve been away—far away from New Jersey—for 32 years now. And so we’ll still keep up on social media; we’ll still text. And they’re great—there’s no animosity—no broken relationship or frustration. I would just say we don’t have a really deep relationship with each other; but again, I’m so grateful for who they are and for the relationship we have. It’s just not a really deep relationship. I know it could have been a whole lot worse, and I’m thankful just for who they are and the relationships we have.

Ron: As I’m listening to you, I’m thinking, “We’ve had a number of people write into our ministry, and say, ‘Okay, we’ve got adult children [and] young adult children. They don’t spend a lot of time together. We really want them to think of each other as family. What can we do to fix all that?’” I always tell them, “Well, first off, it’s not up to you. They have to find their authentic, genuine connections. And some of them will have more interest in developing those relationships than others.”

But as somebody who’s walked that path, what would you say to a parent, who’s anxious about it for the stepchildren and step-siblings?

Scott: Yeah, that’s a great question. I would say almost exactly what you said, Ron, that you can’t force it. You can’t make us have a relationship with them. We all have our own lives—we’re busy—and again, we were older. It’s not like we grew up in the same home together; I think that brings some additional challenges and opportunities that we didn’t have. And I’m okay with the level of relationship we have—we’re thousands of miles apart—it would be difficult to maintain a really strong relationship, and so I don’t have any heartache over that.

And every family’s going to be different on what the dynamics look like—how much time they get together—but I know they definitely could not force it to happen, especially given where we all live geographically now.

[Studio]

Dave:Well, we’ve been listening to a portion of the Family Life Blended podcast with Scott Kedersha and Ron Deal. Ron is now joining us in the studio. So Ron, first of all, let me say this: “Like all parents, Scott’s stepdad didn’t do everything right; but he did do some things right.”

Ron: Yes, he did. And he left a lasting impression in Scott’s life, because he worked hard to connect. And that’s our little rule of thumb, right?—“Connect before you correct,”—that’s really important for stepparents, especially in the beginning. And he did that, and it made a big difference in who Scott is today.

Ann: Well, what about Scott’s comment, Ron—just when he said, “Looking back, his parents did the best they could,”—is that a good thing for us to do?

Ron: Yeah, I do think it is. I think all of us have to—well, you guys said it at the top [of the broadcast]—we have to grow up to a place, where we reflect back on our childhoods, and process it in light of who we are, now, as an adult. And oftentimes—I don’t know about you guys—but that, for me, really happened when I started having children. Now, I’m thinking about my role as a dad; that makes me think about my dad. That’s a good season of life, where we look back, and consider and think about and process.

The difficulties of our childhoods, I think, really come into light at that point; because now, we’re trying to make decisions about: “What am I going to pass on to my kids? Am I going to repeat that same stuff, or what am I going to let go of?” I think that’s really important. We get intentional about keeping the good and trying to not repeat what’s not so good.

I do want to add this—I think, sometimes, the looking back: “Did my parents do the best they could?”—for some people, that’s making an excuse. It’s sort of like their defenses are up, and they just don’t want to face some of the painful things that happened to them in their childhood—and so [they feel] they’re giving their parents an out. And this is not so much about letting your parents off the hook; this is about: “Are you wrestling with the things that are difficult and hard in your life?—the things that maybe you need to bring some forgiveness to in the things that are painful?” And if you’re just going to write it off, and pretend as if that didn’t happen, well, then, you’re really not going to process it well. And here’s the irony: I think you’re more likely to repeat it with your own children.

Ann: Give us an example of that, Ron.

Ron: Quick-temper: that’s one I wrestled with when I started having children. All of a sudden, I look back, and I go: “Yeah, my dad had a quick temper,” and “He could come out strong, and how did I feel?” And then, you kind of go, “Yeah; well, that made me feel small and inadequate.” And that’s something I’ve held onto for a long time. I’m still working on that one, right now, in my life, as a matter of fact: “So am I going to repeat this with my kids?” “Nope; I don’t want to. I better get a handle on that temper. I better go to work on me.”

So it’s partly—looking back—it’s not all about blaming them and sending all this negative thoughts towards your parents. It’s not that at all. It’s more about: “What am I carrying forward?” and “What do I do about it?”

Dave:Yeah, and I think one of the ways you heal, as a son or daughter, is to communicate/to talk about it. I don’t know if you’ve ever heard us share the story, Ron; but my dad, the first few months after we got married comes to our house. We’re in our 20s; we have dinner. We sit down in our little tiny apartment. Ann looks across at him, and says, “Hey, we’ve heard Dave’s mom’s perspective on the divorce. We’ve never heard yours. How do you remember that?” And I’m sitting there—I, literally, grab Ann’s knee—because we have never, not one time, talked about this—

Ann: —as your family.

Dave:—ever. It’s not allowed; we had an unwritten rule: “You just keep quiet.” And so I’m grabbing Ann, like: “You don’t ask my dad that,” and “He’s going to hate that question; he’s not even going to respond.”

And he looks over at us; he goes, “Wow; nobody’s ever asked me.” And so we had this conversation. I remember, as I listened to my dad, I felt empathy and compassion. It began a journey, I think for me, to forgive—because like, “Oh, my goodness; I had no idea,”—because we never talked. And so there was some of that growing up, right there, just like: “It’s a good thing to talk through those things to try to understand what your parents did right and did wrong.”

Ron: —especially since the point of view that we come to, as children, is often immature and not very complete. And we didn’t know all the factors going into what was happening with our parents. And so putting some adult conversation, if I could call it that, on top of what you believed was true is really helpful and illuminating. Anybody, who’s a parent, knows you go through all kinds of stuff. Your kids have no idea what you go through, and how you think about their life, and what you’re going to do and not do. So processing our parents: it’s good to add that to our thoughts.

Dave:Yeah; well, thanks Ron. That was a great conversation with Scott and a lot of learnings, even for us today.

Ann: Yeah, for sure. Thanks, Ron. We appreciate all that you’re doing.

Ron: Thank you.

Dave: Did today’s episode hit home with you? I’ll tell you what: we get it,—

Ann: — because raising kids can be hard. Sometimes, we have more questions than answers. So listen to what we did: we’ve pulled together some of our most helpful parenting pieces into one spot.

Dave:And you can grab your free copy, right now. Let me tell you how: go to FamilyLife.com/ParentingHelp. Again, let me say that: FamilyLlife.com/ParentingHelp; and you’ll get some of the best stuff we have on parenting.

Shelby: I’m Shelby Abbott; and you’ve been listening to Dave and Ann Wilson, with Ron Deal, as he was talking with Scott Kedersha on FamilyLife Today. The Summit on Stepfamily Ministry is coming up very soon. It’s from October 10th to the 11th, happening in Plano, Texas, right outside of Dallas. You can get your tickets right now by going to SummitOnStepfamilies.com. Join us for a few impactful days of excellent talks from the main stage, insightful breakouts, and networking opportunities with ministry leaders from across the nation. Again, you could head over to SummitOnStepfamilies.com to learn more.

Now, coming up tomorrow, Dave and Ann Wilson are actually going to be interviewed themselves by Teresa Whiting, because the Wilsons were on her podcast to share their ten-year anniversary story. You don’t want to miss that coming up tomorrow. On behalf of David Ann Wilson, I’m Shelby Abbott. We’ll see you back next time for another edition of FamilyLife Today.

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