Feel Invisible? Overcoming Insecurity with Kelly & Jimmy Needham

Kelly: I, regularly, will have moments where I am in the house. A thing has happened with a kid, and it’s like, “Alright, I have to pause my whole day now to address this issue.” I am in the hallway to try to make it a private moment with this child, so the other ones are somewhere else. Sometimes, I’ll use my imagination in that moment, and say, “Jesus, help me do this well, because I don’t know the fruit of this moment or its impact.” I’ll imagine it: “How many lives will be impacted by this child in their adulthood because we handled this conversation well?”

Shelby: Welcome to FamilyLife Today, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I’m Shelby Abbott, and your hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson. You can find us at FamilyLifeToday.com.

Ann: This is FamilyLife Today!

Dave: So, one of the things I’m still embarrassed about in our—

Ann: —is this confession time?!

Dave: I guess it sort of is.

Ann: Yes!

Dave: I think our listeners have maybe heard me say this; maybe one time, because I’m embarrassed, so I don’t say it very often; but when we were first married, first year at the University of Nebraska as the chaplain for the Nebraska Corn Huskers sports teams, I would be introduced: “Hey, this is Dave Wilson. He’s with Athletes in Action^®, and he’s the chaplain of our team.” Previously, I was always introduced: “Dave Wilson’s the quarterback of the football team. He’s been All-Conference; he was all-American,” and always had this thing.

Actually, one day, I came home [Laughter]—I’m so embarrassed to say this—after months of this, and I said to Ann, “Listen, nobody here knows that I was like something a year ago.”

Ann: I think his words were like: “These people think I’m a loser.”

Dave: Yes! [Laughter] And so, what I said to her (and I can’t believe I said this; talk about insecurity): "I can’t say, ‘Hey! Last year, or the last four years, I was on a full scholarship…’ I was something! So, when I’m introduced, could you just drop it in?” [Laughter] I literally asked her to let people know I’m really somebody.

Jimmy: Would you mind making me look awesome? [Laughter]

Dave: How embarrassing!

Jimmy: Yes.

Ann: I did it. I actually did it.

Dave: Yes, you did it. That’s even worse, that you actually did it. [Laughter]

We’ve got Kelly and Jimmy Needham talking about purpose and calling and identity. We started a conversation yesterday. If you didn’t hear that, go back and listen to yesterday, because we’re going to follow up on that.

Ann: With her book (Kelly’s book), Purposefooled.

Dave: Yes, Purposefooled. Again, welcome back.

When you hear that story, are you just like, “You’ve got to be kidding me?”

Ann: Did you think, “loser,” too?

Kelly: No!

Jimmy: Are you kidding? [Laughter]

Kelly: Hold on.

Jimmy: What a loser.

Kelly: Can we have confession number two on the Needham side? I’ll start.

Ann: Ohh!

Dave: Let’s go!

Kelly: [In] those early years of touring—which, if you heard yesterday’s program, you’ll remember this—I was very insecure in the touring life with you. I would pull you aside and say, “Jimmy, you have to tell them you’re married and that your wife is here. You have to let your audience know, because people don’t know who I am. I’m over at your merch table.” I was kind of like: “Make a big deal of me!” [Laughter] That’s pretty much what I said—

Dave: —I hope you did.

Kelly: —on more than one occasion.

Jimmy: I did! Yes, that was easy for me to say.

Dave: You’ll sell more merch anyway.

Jimmy: Yes, that’s right. [Laughter]

Kelly: So, I totally feel you there [Dave].

Ann: Alright, Jimmy, what’s your confession?

Jimmy: Yes, I’m trying to think of a day when I’m not having those feelings. [Laughter] I remember one time, I’m driving to a show with my band. This is like a white van.

Ann: A white 15-passanger van?

Jimmy: Yes, that’s right. I’ve got my drummer driving; I’m lying in the back row. [Laughter] We’re going to some town that nobody has ever heard of. I just got word that one of my peers, who was a friend of mine, had his face plastered up in Times Square; his song’s number one. All of that’s happening, and I’m seething.

God brings to mind John 21. It’s the moment where Jesus is resurrected. He has returned; He’s with His disciples on the beach; He’s talking with Peter. “Jesus says to Peter: ‘I tell you the truth, when you were young, you used to dress yourself, go wherever you wanted; when you’re older, someone else is going to dress you, stretch you out, lead you to where you do not want to go.’ He said this to indicate by which kind of death Peter would glorify God.” And then, He says, “Follow Me.” [John 21:18-19]

That phrase struck me. I was so confronted with my own sin: “It might be the death of my career that brings glory to God more than the success of it,” and “Do I want God’s fame more than my fame?”

Ann: Oh, there it is.

Jimmy: “Am I equally as happy when my buddy goes number one with a single that’s boasting about Jesus, and my song is getting no radio traction? Am I equally as happy if it means that God is somehow glorified in both?” And my answer is: “No.” I’m not equally happy. I would sure like to be on Times Square.

That was the big turning point for me, realizing, “Oh, my identity—my sense of worth—is way too tied to my accomplishments. I am way less impressed with the fame of Jesus; I am way more impressed with the fame of Jimmy.” That’s a big problem! God, for years after that, was working on me to work a lot of that out of me.

Ann: We’re facing that continually. When we started speaking for the Weekend to Remember^® with FamilyLife^®, at the first conference I ever did, a woman came up to me and said, “I am so disappointed you are our speaker.”

Kelly: Oh! Wow!

Ann: I said, “I am, too! [Laughter] What could you possibly learn from me?!” I remember going back to the room, and getting on my knees before Jesus, and I said, “I have no business” (especially, when somebody points it out) “Lord, I can’t even do this.” There’s this other part of it, where: “I’m nothing. I’m nobody. I have nothing to be able to give.”

Kelly: Right.

Ann: That was when I was younger.

Now, we’re getting older. Now, it’s like, “Yes, you’re too old to be relatable to what’s going on.” [Laughter] So, we’re faced with both ends of it: “Will I have a voice now that I’m older? Did I have a voice when I was younger?” and “Does that even matter?”

Jimmy: Yes.

Kelly: He intends to make us fruitful. He intends to bear fruit from our lives. He really does. That is a promise.

Ann: Yes.

Kelly: That is an expectation for all who are in Christ, that they would bear fruit, which means impact.

Ann: As long as we have breath, right?

Kelly: That’s right, which means it’s not associated with what we’re doing, with how relevant we are, with what we have to contribute, with our skillset or lack of skillset.

Ann: Yes.

Kelly: It actually only has to do with our connection to the Vine. As long as we are connected to Him, we can bear fruit. [John 15]

Jimmy: That’s right.

Ann: Ooh, let’s talk about that abiding. What does that look like, as we’re talking about purpose?

Kelly: Yes. When I think about that passage, John 15, that’s really the classic place that we would go to for Jesus talking about that, He says, “Apart from Me you can do nothing.” That was really, I think, my first lesson in what makes my life purposeful and meaningful: “Apart from Me, you can do nothing.”

My thought—I remember studying that passage—was: “Wow! Then, Jesus, there’s a whole lot of really effective, impressive-looking nothing in the world.” [Laughter]

There is!

Ann: Yes!

Kelly: “There are whole things that look like they’re really changing things, that You would say, ‘If they’re not connected to Me, they are nothing.’ In the final analysis, it will be blown away.”

Ann: That’s a deep thought, right there.

Kelly: Isn’t it?

Ann: Yes.

Kelly: That’s really helped me, though, because it’s really tempting to look around on social media, or whatever else we’re doing, and to see stuff happening and assess it as: “Important,” “Noteworthy,” “Effective.” And then to look at your own life that looks very mundane and normal, and say, “Well, this doesn’t compare to that.”

It’s like: “Well, let me change my perspective—let me take off the glasses I have on and put on a different pair—and say, ‘Jesus, how would You see it?’” He says, “Apart from Me you can do nothing.” “Well, okay then.” [Laughter] That also means: “With Me, you can do everything.”

I remember realizing, in an early season of motherhood: “Alright! Abiding with Jesus is the most important thing that I can do to make my life effective. If I do that, He promises fruit will come. He says, ‘Anyone who abides in Me will bear much fruit’.” [John 15:5] It’s a promise! I don’t have to worry about the fruit. I don’t have to work hard to make the fruit come. I just have to stick close to Him; and His promise and guarantee is, it will be fruitful.

Jimmy: That’s good.

Ann: What does that look like? I’m thinking about your life, Kelly, as a young mom.

Kelly: Yes.

Ann: You have five kids now. You continually make Jesus a priority to abide with Him.

Kelly: I think that finding time to connect with Jesus every day—I’ve realized—is paramount and important. It doesn’t matter so much if it’s the beginning of the day. I mean, that obviously feels like the ideal Christian standard, right? “Start your day with Jesus.”

I had to find different ways to find connection with Jesus, even if it was just on the drive to school with kids, or on a walk, or listening to my Bible, or finding ways to pray. It was less important to me how that looked than that I had a way to connect with Him and share where I was really at with the Lord and get some kind of intake from His Word and from the community that I’m in. If my purpose is a Person—if my purpose is Jesus, then there’s nothing else more important in my day. That means if my laundry doesn’t get done, and dinner doesn’t get made the way I wanted to, and if we have snacks for lunch, not sandwiches, you know what? It’s okay! [Laughter]

Ann: So, what is the fruit that has come from that?

Kelly: I don’t exactly know.

Dave: Ask her husband.

Jimmy: I have five kids now who are getting to witness, every day, a woman who is saying, “Jesus is the most important Person.”

Ann: Yes!

Dave: Wow.

Ann: That—listen, you guys are still young enough—that’s the greatest gift you’re giving your kids—the greatest one—that they see that Jesus is your everything.

Jimmy: Yes, because you can say it, and you can give them the orders—

Kelly: —yes—

Jimmy: —if they don’t see you treasuring, delighting, enjoying, it’s like, “I don’t buy it!”

Ann: And it feels messy at the time, doesn’t it?

Kelly: It is very messy.

Ann: I remember taking the kids to school; they’re in the back. I got into a habit when our kids were born that, when I put them in a car seat, I would just get in the car’s driver seat, and I would start praying. Because you have to bring Jesus into every minute of the day.

Jimmy and Kelly: Yes, yes.

Ann: And I wanted them to know that we pray without ceasing through everything. I’m talking to Him all day long. They hear the messy; they hear the mundane; but they also hear the: “God! Look at this glorious day! Look at these leaves! You’re amazing!”

Jimmy: Yes.

Ann: They don’t even know what fruit is, but they’re watching you have a vibrant relationship with Jesus.

Kelly: That’s right.

Ann: That’s what you’re showing them.

Kelly: I think we want to see the effect and the return of our efforts. In some of these seasons, we have to use our imagination.

Ann: What’s that mean?

Kelly: I, regularly, will have moments where I am in the house; a thing has happened with a kid, and it’s like, “Alright, I have to pause my whole day now to address this issue.” I am in the hallway to try to make it a private moment with this child, so the other ones are somewhere else. And there are some times when Jimmy is at church, preaching, or prepping to, or on the road. There are crowds in my visual for him, right? And here I am with this one child.

Sometimes, I’ll use my imagination in that moment, and say, “Jesus, help me do this well, because I don’t know the fruit of this moment or its impact.” I’ll imagine it: “How many lives will be impacted by this child in their adulthood because we handled this conversation well? Help me, Jesus, to see the crowd of people behind this moment.”

Ann: Aww, that’s so good!

Dave: Yes, that’s good.

Kelly: It’s like, I need that. We are hungry for that meaning, that purpose. When we see it, visually, in crowds, and platforms, and stages, that’s why we run there. But I think Jesus has that vision for us in the Scriptures. We just have to carry it into these moments of our day and use our imagination to remember.

Jimmy: Yes.

Ann: You guys, address the person who is listening that maybe feels like, “Man, I did that with my kids, and now, this child is older, and they’re doing nothing. They’ve walked away from the church. I’m not seeing the faith they proclaimed when they were younger.” How would you encourage them?

Jimmy: If you don’t have a vision of the sovereignty of God, and an appreciation for the Lord doing ten thousand things that we can’t see in a moment, it really would be crippling and discouraging to experience that. I agree with any mom or dad who has a wayward son or daughter. That would be so hard! At the same time, I am comforted by the fact that, as long as they are breathing, the game isn’t over.

Kelly: That’s right; that’s right.

Jimmy: Who knows what the Lord is doing?

As a pastor now, I’m privy to a thousand wonderful stories of: “It didn’t happen when I thought it would, but later in life, my daughter who abandoned Jesus was convicted of her sin and came back to Christ.” This just happened: a gal from our church ran away from the Lord, [but] got baptized in our church just recently—

Ann: —wow.

Jimmy: —came back to the Lord.

The day before that happens, you still feel like all hope’s lost.

Dave and Ann: Yes.

Jimmy: It’s the day before that happens, and it’s like, “Who knows what our God is up to?”

Kelly: Right.

Dave: Yes.

Jimmy: And then, maybe just the other thing I’d add is, I want everybody to come to know Jesus, but my chief goal in life is not to see results in my decisions as a parent, as a pastor, or as a song writer. My chief goal in life is to glorify the Lord and enjoy Him forever.

Ann: That’s good.

Jimmy: And if that is the aim, then the whole world around me can go bonkers, and the main thing is still getting accomplished. My God is being made much of in my heart and in my life. I don’t know if that feels too reductionistic, but for me, it’s like: “That can be done no matter how my kid responds to my disciplining, or my parenting, or my gospel presentation, or whatever.” God can still be exalted.

Kelly: And He promises that, if you keep abiding with Him, it will bear fruit. It will!

Jimmy: Yes.

Kelly: It is a will statement in John 15. I take a lot of comfort in that. So, even if you don’t see the fruit you’re wanting, it doesn’t mean it’s not bearing fruit; or maybe something’s growing underground you can’t see yet.

Ann: Yes, that’s good.

Kelly: You really do have to entrust that labor to God; that’s His labor. Our labor is to abide with Him; His labor is to bear the fruit. That’s hard. We want to be more in control of it than that. We’re in a culture that tells us we can be more in control of the effects of our life than that.

Dave: That’s right. Yes.

Ann: I think, too, that’s why, for me, I have to be in the Word every day.

Jimmy: Yes.

Kelly: Yes.

Ann: I have to be with Him every day, because when you’re reminded of the greatness, the vastness, the power, the love, the grace—

Kelly: —yes, yes—

Ann: —it allows you to take a breath to say: “You love him. You love her. You love me, and I can trust You.”

Kelly: That’s right.

Dave: And like you said, you seize those sacred moments in the dark hallway, when your husband might be off, and you’re alone, and you’re thinking, “This is so insignificant.”

Kelly: Yes.

Ann: It’s a holy moment.

Kelly: It is a holy moment.

Dave: It is. I don’t know if it’s appropriate here, but I remember, years ago in Little Rock, we interviewed Chip Ingram.

Ann: I was going to say that, Dave.

Dave: He told the story about his son, Jason, who walked away from the Lord. They prayed and prayed, and his son just walked away. They raised him the right way, and—

Ann: —he said, “I’m out. I’m gone.”

Dave: He comes back—you probably know him; he’s written some of the best songs—Lauren Daigle—

Ann: —You Say.

Dave: —“You say I am loved.” That’s Jason Ingram’s song.

Jimmy: I’ve written with him many times, yes. I love Jason.

Dave: So, you know him better.

Jimmy: Yes, love Jason.

Dave: Chip said when he asked his son, “Why did you come back?” He said, “Every day I saw you sit on the couch with your Bible open.

Ann: He said, “I can’t deny your faith.”

Dave: “I couldn’t get that out of my head. He’s real. I watched my parents.”

Jimmy and Kelly: Yes.

Dave: Again, we don’t live it perfectly, but they’re watching. Those little sacred moments that we think are insignificant could turn into the life-changing moment that your son or daughter says, “It’s real.”

Jimmy: That’s right; that’s right.

Kelly: And it’s interesting that his attention is drawn back to his dad’s personal clinging to Jesus.

Dave: Yes, yes; abiding.

Ann: Yes!

Kelly: Not what he’s trying to disciple into him as much; not all the lectures, right?

Dave: Yes.

Kelly: But “You [Chip], personally, were very attached emotionally, relationally, to a Person I couldn’t see.”

That’s always the question for me: “Is that happening? Am I walking that out?” Sometimes, as a mom—I don’t know if anyone else, any other moms feel this—it almost, sometimes, felt like a luxury to have extended time with Jesus. That sounds silly, maybe, but it was like: “No, I need”—it feels very noble—“I need to move the laundry,” “I need to do this for my child,” “…do that for my child.” It feels too luxurious to have an hour of time to sit with God. [Laughter]

No, that’s your command! That’s your command: Number One. It might not be an hour, but any time—

Ann: —but you can have nuggets of time.

Kelly: —you do sit down. I think, as a mom, sometimes, who has many kids, it feels wrong, in the middle of a busy day, to sit.

Ann: —or even selfish.

Jimmy: Yes.

Kelly: It can feel selfish. I hear that from other moms, as well. “No! The Lord has told you: ‘This is your first and greatest command.’” And it is enjoyable to you; it should be. It is restful for you; it’s meant to be. So, receive it without guilt, knowing that this is actually Step Number One to even enable you to love your neighbor as yourself (and those little children are your first neighbors). You can’t do that well without the first part.

That really freed me to then say, “Okay, I can spend time doing this even if my kitchen is a mess still. That’s okay.”

Dave: We all know, we do our priorities. If it’s a priority—

Kelly: —we do; that’s right.

Dave: —you know moms who have five kids or six kids, and somehow, they work out—

Kelly: —that’s right!

Dave: —because their body—they say, “I’ve got to do this.”

Kelly: Yes, absolutely.

Dave: I’ve done it. My body’s more important than my spiritual life. I find a way to get an hour workout in, but I didn’t spend any [time with Jesus]. If my purpose is a Person, the Person has to be a priority.

Kelly: That’s right.

Jimmy: That’s right.

Dave: Let me ask you this: how does this priority of abiding in Christ—how do you do it together as a couple? Talk marriage. Because you’ve got a full life, and craziness going on in your home. Is there an overlap, together, as you do this?

Jimmy: We just try to be really vocal with each other about what is going on in our internal lives a lot. We get the kids down, and we’re probably talking for an hour after that—

Kelly: —yes, really nice.

 Jimmy: —just everything from what our day’s like to, “I read this thing, and it made me feel…I realized, ‘Oh, I’m putting too much hope in what this person thinks about me’,’’ or whatever.

Kelly: I think what you’re even saying is that we’ve made each other’s soul and relationship with God a priority.

Jimmy: Yes.

Kelly: I care very deeply that you’re healthy and your walk with Jesus is healthy. And you care very much about that for me and have often said, “Do you need to get out?”

Jimmy: Yes, yes.

Ann: That’s so sweet.

Kelly: “Do you need to get out and have some time alone, away from the house?” I’ve said the same thing to you. Even more than our marriage sometimes, it’s like, “You need to be healthy with Jesus, and I need to be healthy with Jesus first! Then we can work on us.”

Jimmy: Yes.

Kelly: Usually, if we do the first part well, we don’t have to do much work on us. It’s very natural; there’s an overflow there.

Jimmy: I’ll tell you what it hasn’t looked like—and this is, sometimes, jarring to some believers—it does not look like us poring over the Word in a Bible study together every day. It does not look so much like that. I think there’s a ton of value in that; but for us, we’re able to be spiritually vibrant with each other, with the Lord, without some of the more formal trappings.

When I was 19, and I was asking for marriage advice from people—I remember, it was like a month before I was getting married. I was leading worship for a men’s retreat. The speaker there was a retired Dallas Seminary professor, a savant man of God in his 80s. He didn’t even preach from notes. I asked him marriage advice: “How do you spiritually lead your wife and all that?” He said, “Well, early on in our marriage, I taught my wife biblical Greek and Hebrew, and we studied the Scriptures in the original languages.”

Ann: What?!

Dave: Are you kidding me?!

Jimmy: That was his advice to me.

Dave: I mean, that’s what we did. [Laughter] That’s what I do, honey.

Jimmy: Yes, I’m sure that’s what you guys do.

Ann: Oh, yes!

Jimmy: For us, it’s not what we ended up doing.

Dave: We added a little Aramaic in there, too. [Laughter]

Jimmy: But I do think there is some sort of aspiration in biblically-minded Christians: “Oh, that’s the—”

Ann: —”That’s the pinnacle.”

Jimmy: “That’s the pinnacle,” maybe, for them.

Dave: Yes.

Jimmy: It took me a while to say, “Okay, I can’t live this man’s life in my marriage. I just need to be praying for her; be concerned for her spiritual vibrancy.” That may look different, but letting myself off the hook with some of the things [for which] there’s no verse that says: “Do that.”

Kelly: Yes.

Dave: Yes.

Jimmy: It just says that I need to lead and shepherd my wife well; love her, sacrificially. But it does not say, ‘Teach her biblical Hebrew.’” [Laughter]

Kelly: —“Do a Bible study together every morning at 5 am.”

Ann: But you’ve gotten yourselves into a rhythm.

Jimmy: Yes, that’s right.

Ann: When the kids are in bed, you catch up with each other: “What’s going on with your heart? What’s going on with your spiritual life?”

Kelly: Yes, yes.

Jimmy: That’s right.

Ann: I think those are really good questions.

Dave: Yes. I know, when I heard you say that—Ann has said to me for 40-plus years now: “I just want to talk about God together.”

Jimmy: Yes.

Ann: “What’s going on? What are you hearing?”

Dave: “I’m walking with Him. I was in the Word today.” It’s easy for me not to share that. It’s like, “No, no, no. That’s important. I’m going to tell her.”

Kelly: Yes.

Dave: And there’s something that happens in that conversation.

Jimmy: That’s right.

Dave: A lot of couples don’t even do that.

Shelby: I’m Shelby Abbott; and you’ve been listening to Dave and Ann Wilson with Jimmy and Kelly Needham on FamilyLife Today. We’ll hear some encouragement from Kelly for someone who has a spouse who may not be walking with the Lord in just a second.

But first, Kelly Needham has written a book called Purposefooled: Why Chasing Your Dreams, Finding Your Calling, and Reaching for Greatness Will Never Be Enough. Wow! What a great title. This book—we really believe in it, and it’s going to be our gift to you when you give to the ministry of FamilyLife^®. You can get your copy of Kelly’s book, Purposefooled, right now by simply going online to FamilyLifeToday.com and clicking on the “Donate Now” button at the top of the page.

Or give us a call with your donation at 800-358-6329; again, that number is 800-“F” as in family, “L” as in life, and then the word, “TODAY.” And feel free to drop us a donation in the mail if you’d like. Our address is FamilyLife, 100 Lake Hart Drive, Orlando, FL 32832.

Alright! Now, let’s hear more encouragement from Kelly for someone who has a spouse who may not be walking with the Lord.

Ann: We’d be remiss—I know we’re at the end, but for a spouse who doesn’t have somebody, like a husband or a wife, who’s even willing to talk about spiritual things; or maybe they’re a believer, but they’re just not there. How would you encourage them?

Kelly: Don’t underestimate your prayer life for them. Do not underestimate what God is doing in your praying. Especially in marriage—I mean, we all know it, we’re tempted to nag people to death to get them to change. [Laughter] That’s just such a strong temptation in marriage. That just does not—what you need is God to come alive to them.

Ann: Nag God about their spouse!

Dave: Yes, yes.

Kelly: That’s right! He does tell us to do that. But don’t underestimate the power of prayer, and consistent nagging prayer, of God to do the transforming work that you would like to see happen.

I think that’s even true for your own heart. I thought about what you were saying earlier, about moms getting in the Word. There may be moms listening, saying, “I have zero hunger for God. I just want to sleep.”

Dave: Yes, yes.

Kelly: Or “I just want to get away from everybody.” [Laughter] But if you have any part of you that hears that and thinks, “I would love to have a hunger for God,” well, start there! Pray for a hunger; just an occasion when you are in the car, [say], “God, I feel no hunger/appetite for You at all. Would You change that in me?” Just start asking for it. He will.

Start honestly where you are. Those prayers really are effective—maybe not in the hour that we pray them; but they will bear fruit, especially as we keep bugging God. [Laughter]

Ann: That’s good. Thanks, you guys.

Jimmy: Yes.

Ann: That was awesome.

Shelby: Now, coming up next week, Chad and Emily Van Dixhoorn are going to be here with the Wilsons as they discuss grace, forgiveness, and practical ways to live out a Christ-centered union. Really looking forward to that next week.

On behalf of Dave and Ann Wilson, I’m Shelby Abbott. We will see you back next time for another edition of FamilyLife Today.

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