Filling the Void: Michael Card

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Michael:  The prophets are extending—they’re offering—hesed. Sure, they say that God is angry and that you need to repent and come back, absolutely. But the reason that God is making the offer is that He is the God of hesed. He’s going to forgive you. All you’ve got to do is turn around and come back. It’s His hesed that leads us to redemption.

You realize that He is full of hesed, and He shows it to a thousand generations. Who doesn’t want to have a relationship with that God?

Shelby: Welcome to FamilyLife Today, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I’m Shelby Abbott, and your hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson. You can find us at FamilyLifeToday.com.

Ann: This is FamilyLife Today!

Ann: This is an amazing day on FamilyLife Today because we’re continuing this conversation we started yesterday with the man—Dave, actually, he’s one of your spiritual heroes.

Dave: Yes, he’s my buddy now: Mr. Michael Card.

Ann: He’s our friend.

Dave: We’ve been to his house. We’ve been to his church, which is really just about a mile from his house out in Franklin, Tennessee. It was—

Ann: —epic.

Dave: —It was epic to be able to spend time with Michael Card.

Ann: Yes, it was such a pleasure, because we got to feel and see and hear his tender heart for the Lord.

Dave: Yes, and I'll tell you what: he has an amazing mind.

Ann: Yes. [Laughter]

Dave: This dude is sharp! I mean, he’s a theologian; he’s written over 400+ songs. Think about that! 400+ songs—

Ann: —yes—

Dave: —and a  whole bunch of books. One of those books is called Inexpressible, and it’s on the topic of God’s hesed love.

Ann: We’re going to start right there today, with Michael explaining why that concept of love is so inexpressible, and yet, so vital to every human heart.

[Recording]

Dave: Well, let’s talk about it.

Michael: Okay.

Dave: Start anywhere you want. I mean, define it; explain it.

Michael: I think it has the largest range of meaning of any word in any language. I don’t think there’s any other word like hesed. In six different English translations, it’s translated 169 different ways.

Usually, it has an adjective in front of it. So, it’s not just love; it’s “covenant love” or “faithful love.” In 1535, Miles Coverdale made up the word “lovingkindness.” We all know that word.

Ann: Sure.

Dave: Right.

Michael: That word was made up to try to translate hesed. It’s just untranslatable. My translation is a sentence. I translate hesed as when the Person from whom I have the right to expect nothing, gives me everything. That’s hesed.

God defines Himself to Moses in Exodus—he uses it twice. He says that He is full of hesed and that He shows hesed to a thousand generations. [Exodus 34:6-7]

There were two things that got me on to it. There was that passage—and I studied Hebrew, and I don’t even remember us talking about it.

Dave: No.

Michael: Dr. Veenker, my Hebrew teacher; we never talked about hesed. So, I saw that. I think it’s Exodus 34, but then, there are two Psalms: Psalm 13 and Psalm 69—the Psalms almost always do this, the lament Psalms; they’ll lament, lament, lament—“but You, O Lord,” and then it becomes praise.

Dave: Yes.

Michael: They do that a lot.

Ann: Yes.

Michael: Well, in [Psalm] 13 and 69, it’s hesed; the word hesed appears, and that’s the transition. And then, in the book of Lamentations, the same thing happens: “Because of Your hesed, we are not destroyed,” or something like that. [Lamentations 3:22] That’s where the book of Lamentations turns around. I saw that, and I thought, “What is this word?”

Ann: Had anyone been writing on that word at that point?

Michael: Oh, there wasn’t anything popular.

Ann: Yes, okay.

Michael: There were a lot of really boring, academic articles, basically.

Ann: So, you started it?

Michael: Well, hopefully, I popularized it somewhat. Because for me, as a follower of Jesus—Jesus quotes Hosea 6 twice, which has the word hesed. We hear Him say it twice. A lot of his parables are about hesed, but the cross is basically an act of hesed. I stand in front of the cross, and I say, “I have no right to expect anything from you. I nailed you there.”

What do I get? A second chance? No, I get more chances—more second chances—than you can number. He gives—I have no right to expect anything from Him, but He gives me everything. That’s what is most exciting to me about hesed. It really is a category for understanding Jesus.

Ann: What does that look like personally for you?

Michael: I don’t know. You think of it all the time. I have a tattoo of it; it’s on my arm (which, I’m not encouraging people to get a tattoo). [Laughter]

Ann: But you put it on your arm for a reason.

Michael: Because I meditate on it all the time. It really is a kind of a doorway into the way He loves me and the love that He has for me. When you start running it in Scripture, there are all kinds of great examples of what hesed looks like. I’ve got a bunch of notes; in fact, can I read you a parable?

Ann: Please!

Michael: This is from the Talmud.

“Once as Rabbi Johanan was walking out of Jerusalem, Rabbi Joshua following him, seeing the temple in ruins,” —this is in 70 AD after the temple has been destroyed and it’s still smoldering; ”seeing the temple in ruins,”—”he cried, ‘Woe to us. This place is in ruins, the place where atonement was made for Israel’s iniquities.” In some versions, this is translated as: “We no longer have a means of atonement,” because the temple is gone.

Dave: Yes.

Michael: “Rabbi Johanan said to him, ‘My son, do not grieve, for we have another means of atonement which is no less effective. What is it? It’s deeds of hesed about which the Scripture says, ‘I desire hesed and not sacrifice.”  See, that’s Hosea 6:6.

I’ve got a couple of rabbinic stories. Put up with me, and let me read this one more.

Ann: Okay.

Michael: This comes from the Midrash, which is a commentary on the Talmud.

“There’s a man who stood before the judge who would send him to heaven or hell.”—this isn’t proper theology, you understand that, right?

Dave: Yes.

Michael: This is a parable.

Dave: I love this. I read this in your book, and this is really good.

Michael: “You can choose but first you can see them both.”—heaven or hell—”A chariot of fire took him to a remote castle floating on a cloud. A great hall, banquet tables. People came in with a fork in their left hand and a spoon in their right hand, but their elbows would not bend. This is hell.”

Ann: Right.

Michael: They got to this banquet, but they can’t eat.

Ann: They can see it, and they can smell it.

Michael: “The chariot of fire went to another castle floating in the clouds. A banquet table, where people came in with a fork in the right hand and a spoon in the left hand. Their elbows wouldn’t bend. As he watched, they began to feed each other. This is heaven. The people have made it heaven by acts of hesed. The man went back to the judge who asked him, ‘Do you want to choose heaven or hell?’ The man said, ‘I choose hell. I will make it heaven by teaching people to do hesed, by feeding each other.’”

Is that not the coolest story?

Dave: Yes.

Ann: Dave read that to me as we were getting ready. It’s so surprising.

Michael: Yes, well, that’s Hasidic Judaism. It’s Judaism based on hesed. I actually asked a rabbi in Jerusalem one time: “Do you call yourselves Hasids because you do acts of hesed?” He said, “Oh, no! We call ourselves Hasids because we trust God’s hesed. It’s not us doing hesed,. We look to God’s hesed.”

It’s really bottomless once you start looking at the Scriptures. There are so many references and so many examples of it.

[Studio]

Dave: Well, we are listening to an interview we did with Michael Card about this concept of hesed. I loved it when he said, “Hesed is when the Person who owes me nothing gives me everything.”

Ann: It’s grace. It’s uncanny. It’s unheard of.

Dave: The way he said that; I remember sitting there thinking, “Oh, my goodness. That is so profound.” It’s truly amazing when you take that idea and apply it to marriage, which we did in the Art of Marriage™. The new Art of Marriage, which you can get right now has a whole section on hesed love in marriage. You do not want to miss that one.

Go to FamilyLifeToday.com and order it.

Ann: Okay, let’s get back to Michael Card talking more about the power of hesed in marriage. This is really good stuff.

Dave: Yes.

[Recording]

Michael: Jesus' definition is my favorite, in Luke 6. One of the major translations of hesed is “kind,” the word “kind.” Jesus says that God is kind to the ungrateful and the wicked. [Luke 6:35] God is kind to the ungrateful and the wicked. Who would have ever thought that, right?

Dave: Right.

Michael: But that’s Jesus’ definition of hesed, and I’m really glad because I’m ungrateful and wicked, but God shows me His hesed. Why? Because He shows hesed to thousands, like He told Moses. It really becomes this key to understanding Christianity, to understanding who Jesus is, to understanding what you are supposed to do with your life. We’re supposed to do acts of hesed. You don’t wait for somebody to deserve something.

Ann: Yes. It goes so contrary to our culture—

Michael: —absolutely!

Ann: —It’s the opposite.

Michael: Yes. Well, it’s the gospel. We’re His enemies. It’s not like He waited for us to convert, and then He forgives us.

Dave: Right.

Michael: He gives us His forgiveness. It’s there. He dies the sins of everybody, whether people accept Him or not. In fact, I tell people: “You don’t go to hell because of your sin; you go to hell for not accepting the forgiveness of your sin.” Jesus absorbed all of that.

Ann: Yes.

Micheal: It was the ultimate act of hesed. That’s why, I mean, hesed is kind of the key for understanding who Jesus is.

Dave: Now, as you wrote about, in trying to live that out in your own life, one of the things I found fascinating—and you write songs about this, as well; you said, “I want to bridge from white to black. I want to bridge from people like me [to] people different from me.”

Where did that come, and how did that play out?

Michael: I think reconciliation, that movement, comes out of this. You don’t wait until somebody earns it. You don’t do a prison ministry and say, “Well, as soon as you clean  your alcoholism up, or your drug addiction, then we’ll talk.” That’s the world’s value system: “You’ll earn my help.” That’s not how it works.

In fact, I think it’s our neediness that attracts God and Christ to us. He loves us not on the basis of anything we can do or have ever done. He loves us because He’s a God of hesed, and He’s kind to the ungrateful and the wicked. I guess that’s the gospel.

Dave: And we have a hard time thinking we’re the ungrateful and the wicked.

Michael: Yes, definitely. Well, I want to earn it, right?

Ann: Yes.

Dave: Right.

Michael: I want to do good works so God will like me. Was it Brennan Manning who said, “God loves each one of us as if you are the only ones to love. He loves you as you are, and not as you should be, because nobody is as they should be.”

Ann: I think we have a hard time, as believers, doing that in our culture. We have a hard time doing that in our homes—

Michael: —oh, absolutely.

Ann: —in our marriages; with our kids that have turned their backs on us.

Michael: Yes.

Ann: How do you apply it to your marriage and to your home? How would you encourage other people to do that?

Michael: Well, I think when you do hear about hesed, you resonate—something in you resonates—because this is what you were created for. We’re created in God’s image.

Dave: Right. We long for it.

Michael: Yes. So, when you are shown hesed or when you find out about it, there’s something in you—a switch—that gets flipped. I think, especially with children, if you show your children—because what is everybody going to tell you? They’re going to tell you, “If you do that, they’re going to take advantage—if you show hesed, they’re just going to take advantage of you.”

Dave and Ann: Yes.

Michael: I guess, certainly, there are probably kids who would and spouses who would, but God is kind to the ungrateful and the wicked. If I can’t incarnate that in my marriage—I think that’s what marriage does; it incarnates hesed. You don’t love somebody because they earned it, right? Or they did something for you. I don’t know, but I do think it’s the key to marriage. If you show hesed—even if one of you; you don't both have to do it. If just one person shows hesed, I think a marriage is going to be successful.

Ann: Me, too. Well, talk to that person who is listening who is thinking, “No, it’s not. I’ve been trying to do that.”

Michael: Well, if you’ve been trying to do it and expecting the other person to change, that’s not hesed. [Laughter] No, that’s not hesed. No, you love them the way God loves you. You show them the forgiveness that God shows you. But I do think that’s what can transform the most hard-hearted person.

Dave: Is that how it worked out in your home? You’re on the road.

Michael: I think maybe part of the reason I resonate with this is that my wife did show me hesed.

Dave: Wow.

Michael: My mentor talked my wife into marrying me. She didn’t want to marry me. [Laughter] She went to our church. I would take walks with him and waste enormous amounts of his time complaining that Susan, my wife: “She won’t go out with me! What can I do, Dr. Lane?”

So, he sits down with her and—big eyebrows: “Susan, you need to know, Michael really loves you.” Susan would say, “I just don’t love him.” And this is what got me my wife; Bill said, “Of all the men you’ve known, who have you trusted?” She said, “Well, I trust Mike.” Here’s the line: he said, “It’s more important to say I trust you than to say I love you.”

Now, it still took me three years. [Laughter] But that changed—I’m doggedly pursuing her, but that changed her direction. And it is true; love kind of comes and goes.

Ann: Totally.

Michael: But if you break trust, it’s very hard to reestablish trust.

Ann: I’m thinking about all of the moms right now, as their kids are dating.

Michael: Oh, absolutely! Well, wouldn’t you say that’s true?

Dave and Ann: Yes.

Michael: It’s much more important to say, “I trust you.” than to say, “I love you.”

Ann: Yes.

Dave: Oh, yes.

Michael: Even with Jesus—I mean, when I’m praying, a lot of times I say, “I do love Him, obviously, but I trust Him.”

Ann: That’s good.

Michael: I trust Him, yes.

Dave: And you can’t trust somebody without knowing their character.

Michael: Yes.

Ann: That’s good.

Dave: You have to know that, and she had already seen that in you.

Ann: Yes.

Michael: Yes, she knew she was safe; she just wasn’t particularly attracted to me. [Laughter] I don’t know why! I had a beard this long—

Ann: [Laughing] To your waist!

Michael: And I was still a Bible nerd and that kind of thing. I don’t know what her problem was. And, she was a babe, is a babe; still is a babe.

Ann: Oh.

Michael: She’s an incredible mom, and she’s a marvelous grandmother. It’s funny— when you see your wife—you love somebody, and you marry them: “Okay.” But then, you see a woman raising children, and it just gives you a whole other level of appreciation and love for them. It’s this selfless thing.

Ann: Yes.

Michael: Now, to see her with the grandkids, I have this whole new appreciation. So, I think an appreciation for hesed is one of the things that I see in my wife. She’s not looking for payback. She’s very selfless.

Ann: When our spouse does something that we feel like, “I don’t deserve that,” or “I was mean,” or whatever, but they repay you with kindness, it’s the most humbling, convicting—

Michael: —yes.

Ann: --it makes you want to be on your face. It makes you look up. It’s unworldly. It’s hesed.

Michael: That’s what’s so unique about hesed. It’s kindness, and it’s love, and it’s mercy, and it’s grace. It’s this big, huge range of meaning; but when it comes into marriage—sometimes, you’ll hear marriage counselors and the advice sounds so thin—

Dave and Ann: —yes.

Michael: —kind of contrived. When you start talking hesed, let’s begin with the hesed that was shown to us by God through Jesus. If you take that kind of sacrificial love, kindness, [and] loyalty into marriage—again, I think it can work if only one person does it, but it’s awesome if two people do it.

Ann: Let’s talk to the person who hears that and thinks, “I want to do that. I’ve tried to do that. I can’t do it long term.”

Michael: You can’t. You go to Jesus. I mean, it has to be the transformation. It’s dying to yourself and picking up the cross and following Him.

Ann: Every day.

Michael: I don’t think there’s any other way we get it.

Ann: Me, too.

Michael: We receive it from Him. That goes all the way back to God revealing Himself to Moses. He says, “I’m full of hesed, and I show hesed to a thousand generations.”

So, don’t give me this “angry Old Testament God” business, The God of the Hebrew Bible is still a God of hesed. You see the compassion He pours out. You can go right through the—Hosea is basically a novel of hesed. The prophets are extending, they’re offering, hesed. Sure, they say that God is angry and that you need to repent and come back, absolutely. But the reason God is making the offer is He’s the God of hesed. He’s going to forgive you. All you have to do is turn around and come back.

Paul talks about it some. Paul usually talks in terms of kindness. “It’s God’s kindness that leads us to redemption.” [Romans 2:4]

Ann: Yes.

Michael: It’s His hesed that leads us to redemption. You realize that He’s full of hesed; He shows it to a thousand generations. Who doesn’t want to have a relationship with that God?

Ann: Yes.

Michael: Yes.

[Studio]

Ann: Just listening to this makes me emotional again. God, the one who owes me nothing gives me everything.

That is amazing.

Dave: Yes. I just have to say, I’ve experienced this firsthand from God, but in our marriage from you. You have done that with me.

Ann: That’s so sweet. And you have done that with me, too, Dave.

Dave: Not like you’ve done it with me and definitely not perfectly. But I’ll tell you what, for the listener who thinks they have never experienced this in their marriage or family, let me just say: today could be the day to take a step toward it.

Ann: I would agree with that. Just take a moment right now before God; read about His hesed love, maybe in Exodus 34 or Hosea 6:6 and “taste and see that the Lord is good” to you today. [Psalm 34:8]

Dave: That would be a great moment of reflection. Don’t do it quickly. Hit the pause button; slow down; and absolutely take some time to sit in the hesed love of God.

Ann: In fact, I’m just going to read Exodus 34m starting in verse 6. It says, “The Lord passed before Him”— that’s Moses—”and proclaimed, ‘The Lord, the Lord, a God merciful and gracious, slow to anger, and abounding in steadfast love and faithfulness, keeping steadfast love for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin.”

Dave: I mean, you hear that, and it just gives you a glimpse of the hesed, resilient, covenant, never-ending love and grace of God. That’s worth sitting, reading over and over, memorizing, meditating on, and [seeing that] you are the recipient of that kind of love.

Ann: And let me just add, as you take some time to reflect, think about that: God is merciful and gracious. He’s slow to anger. He’s abounding in steadfast love for you, and He’s faithful to you. He forgives everything. That’s just insane, crazy kind of love.

Dave: We know no human that can do that. Only God can love with hesed love. Hit the pause button, slow down, and absolutely take some time to sit in the hesed love of God.

And here’s another action step that you could do in community or especially with your spouse: get the new Art of Marriage; Session One is about the hesed love of God applied in your marriage. It’s a key part of the teaching. You’ll learn about it. Doing it with your spouse or with other couples will literally change your marriage.

Ann: And then, join us again tomorrow as we conclude our conversation with Michael Card.

Shelby: I’m Shelby Abbott, and you’ve been listening to Dave and Ann Wilson with Michael Card on FamilyLife Today.

It’s great stuff today. Michael Card has actually written a book called Inexpressible: Hesed and the Mystery of God's Lovingkindness. If you’re new to this whole concept, and you are just hearing about it for the first time today, this would be a great book to pick up to dive deeper and learn more about God’s hesed love for you and how that could change all the relationships in your life.

You can get your copy right now by going online to FamilyLifeToday.com, or you can find it in our show notes. Or give us a call at 800-358-6329; again, that number is 800-“F” as in family, “L” as in life, and then the word, “TODAY.”

And just like Dave mentioned earlier, the Art of Marriage is something that FamilyLIfe offers to you to really transform your relationship with your spouse. The Art of Marriage is a video series that provides an opportunity for you to not only dive deeper with God, but also, take what you’ve learned in your relationship with God as you’ve grown deeper [with] Him and turn that toward your spouse in a way that will transform your relationship forever.

As Dave mentioned, Session One is all about unpacking the hesed love of God and, really, how we can mirror that unconditional love for our spouse, even when it seems impossible. Sometimes, I know, it can seem impossible. So, whether you are looking for fresh small group material or planning your church’s next big event, Art of Marriage is designed to inspire and transform marriages.

You can learn more and preview Session One at ArtofMarriage.com or find more details in the show notes.

Now, tomorrow, Michael Card is back with Dave and Ann Wilson as they talk about and unpack the concept of forgiveness and embodying divine love. That’s coming up tomorrow. We hope you’ll join us.

Dave: Wait, wait, wait, wait. Before we end, we’ve got a question for you: where are you listening from?

Ann: You know that we are from Detroit.

Dave: Motor City.

Ann: Shelby’s in the Philly area, and our FamilyLife Today headquarters are in Orlando.

Dave: So, we’re coming to you guys from all over the country. What about you? We would love to know if you are in one of those areas or where else you consider home.

Ann: Text “FLT” plus where you are listening from to 80542 to let us know. Again, text “FLT” plus where you’re listening from to 80542.

Shelby: On behalf of Dave and Ann Wilson, I’m Shelby Abbott. We will see you back next time for another edition of FamilyLife Today.

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