He Restores My Soul: David & Meg Robbins

Episode Transcript

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He Restores My Soul

Guests:David and Meg Robbins

From the series:Running on Fumes (Day 2 of 3)

Air date:February 15, 2024

Meg: I think of still waters [as] a green pasture with this quiet stream running through it—but a lot of times, that’s not where the still waters are—it might be down into a hard place in our life. I think most of us know—and I think we’ve certainly experienced this in our marriage—that a lot of times, the place where we experience the fullness of what Jesus has to offer us, and intimacy with Him, is in the terrifying hard places.

Shelby: Welcome to FamilyLife Today, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I’m Shelby Abbott, and your hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson. You can find us at FamilyLifeToday.com.

Ann: This is FamilyLife Today!

Dave: We’ve got the Robbins back: David and Meg Robbins, President of FamilyLife®. Welcome back.

David: It is good to be back. We love getting around the table with you guys. [Laughter]

I was thinking about our conversation yesterday. In this season, there was a passage—that was a very familiar passage—but the Lord really spoke to us through to help us. We talked a lot, practically, yesterday to help us really go there and prioritize, then, in it.

Meg: Psalm 23—a lot of us are very familiar with it—I memorized it as a young child.

David: You did? Really?

Meg: Yes!

Dave: The whole thing?

Meg: But I read a book by a guy by the name of Phillip Keller, who was a shepherd—

David: That’s a great book.

Meg: Yes.

Ann: —a real shepherd.

Meg: It’s called A Shepherd Looks at Psalm 23. Yes, he was a real shepherd with real sheep in Africa; ended up becoming a pastor, later. It has just been phenomenal hearing his take on what David is saying when he’s talking about the sheep and the shepherd in Psalm 23.

I actually read the book before, like 15 years ago. I did have small children at the time; I really didn’t remember a lot of it. [Laughter] It’s like I had never read it.

David: “I don’t remember any of this”; but there’s underlines. [Laughter]

Meg: I’m telling him all these things—yes, exactly—“Do you remember reading this?!”

David: Let’s read Psalm 23:1-3.

Meg: Let’s do it. We’re just going to do the first three verses and just read it.

David: Let’s do it; yes.

“The Lord is my shepherd, I shall not want.

He makes me lie down in green pastures;

He leads me beside still waters.

He restores my soul;

He leads me in the paths of righteousness for His namesake.”

Meg: There are a couple of places that just really stood out to us during this time of just trying to have some extra space for rest and restoration, really. Verse 2: “He leads me beside quiet waters,” or “…still waters,”—just that reminder that He, alone, satisfies my thirst. We talked a little bit yesterday about how it’s easy to think—I run to David, sometimes, with things or think that he should satisfy longings in my heart—but really, Jesus is the only One who can satisfy those things—just the reality.

One of the things Phillip Keller talks about is that sheep need water, just like us, every day in an ongoing way. But the shepherd is the one who knows the source for the water. Sheep are quick to go to whatever they see: they go to some mud pool that might be right there—it’s this nasty hole full of sort of water—and they’ll drink it just because it’s what’s available; it’s right there. They will also drink from streams that are completely contaminated—they may look nice, but they’re not—and the shepherd knows that and has to keep them away from it.

Once they start drinking out of that, they don’t realize they’re filling up with things that aren’t going to fill them. I know I do that for sure, myself—I run to things that are not going to satisfy my soul—

sometimes, that is relationships;

sometimes, that is our spouse—we might turn to them—I might go to David;

I might go to my phone, first thing in the morning, knowing/thinking, “Oh, I got a text; I’m just going to check that one thing.” Before I know it, I’ve read three emails and I’m on Instagram®.

That’s a mud pool in my life, if I’m honest. It’s not a bad thing, but there’s so much more real water for me.

Dave: I think one of the most enlightening moments in a marriage is when you do realize that. It’s hard; but it’s good, like: “I thought she was going to fill me up,” “I thought he would fill me up.” They do; but they, ultimately, are not the still waters;—

Ann: —source.

Meg: Right.

Dave: —and they never can [be].

I read a quote, not too long ago, about—by Paul David Tripp, who we’ve had on here—he said, “If you’re disappointed in your marriage, it doesn’t mean you have a bad marriage; it means you’re married.” [Laughter] When you hear that, you sort of laugh; but he’s getting at something sort of profound, like, “Your disappointment is normal; that’s what people do with one another—we disappoint—you think your spouse is never going to do that, but they do that.”

If you think, “Well, I’ve got the wrong spouse,”—because [you assume] “This is what marriage is supposed to be…”—you go looking other places. But if you understand: “This is part of a human condition, that was never designed to fill me up; only [going] vertical—only Jesus; only still waters—[fills me up.]” That changes everything, because it’s like, “Okay, we’re disappointed. Maybe there are some things we need to work on,”—it requires work; but we need to turn away [from seeking fulfilment from my spouse] and go, “I’ve got to find life somewhere else.”

That Psalm—we read it at funerals—we don’t sit and go, “What is he really saying? That is profound.”

David: It’s profound, because the way He lead us there is, often, not the way we want it sometimes. That’s what you’re saying, Dave, like, “Wait; this isn’t what this was supposed to feel like, look like, be like.” But often, it’s those places that take us to where the real Living Water is.

Meg, Yes, because, oftentimes—there’s three places a sheep can get water—the first two are deep wells, like natural wells and streams. If the shepherd has had their flock grazing in green pastures, usually, in order to get to that water, they have to go down steep cliffs, rocky ledges—scary paths—just to get to those still waters at the bottom; they’re usually way down in the valley.

If I’m honest, a lot of times, I don’t want to go down these treacherous paths that the Lord might be leading me on in my life or to scary places. I think of still waters [as] a green pasture with this quiet stream running through it—but a lot of times, that’s not where the still waters are—it might be down into a hard place in our life. I think most of us know—and I think we’ve certainly experienced this in our marriage—that a lot of times, the place where we experience the fullness of what Jesus has to offer us, and intimacy with Him, is in the terrifying hard places.

Sometimes, when things are going really well, and you’re kind of coasting along, you don’t always experience the satisfaction and the need/the thirst that we have for Him. But in those hard places, I feel like that’s where we can experience intimacy with Him and the water that He wants to give us.

Ann: Where has that been for you guys? You’ve gone through a lot of things. Is there a place or a time that you remember: “Oh, we had to—getting to this water was really hard—and we were desperate for a drink”?

David: I just want to say, first, before we get specific: coming to the end of yourself is the gospel. When we first trust Jesus is when we realize we come to the end of ourselves: “We can’t make this happen. Oh, my goodness; He has made it all happen: the sufficiency of what He has done on our behalf,”—and we get to receive that. When we come to the places in our marriage—where we go: “I don’t have it; I’m not enough,” “I can’t pull it off; I can’t keep going,”—there’s an opportunity there to really drink deeply of still waters.

We were just talking, before we started, about our oldest—who is playing sports, senior year, and just thriving in a lot of ways—I think about the season, where we had him and he had special needs. We had some challenges, living overseas, that certainly drew us—those were some significant ones, too—like all of a sudden, flashbacks of: year after year of: “This is life in the world that we live in/a broken world.” We will come to the end of ourselves and need Someone greater than us—Jesus Himself—to help us.

I think I’m very nostalgic right now. Football season—just celebrated his senior football season—it’s like: “Lord, thanks for being faithful to him,” while I’m reflecting back to what it meant for our marriage to process and to trust in those moments and continuing to trust. Those were really hard times; I [had to learn to] believe: “God, okay, You have a special needs journey for us. We’re accepting this,”—that was a lot to trust the Lord with, and He’s been so faithful in it.

But then I think, recently, some of these reflections we’re sharing from is: “Okay, we’ve been with FamilyLife for six years. There’s been the pandemic and a lot of challenging things that any organization is going through in these years—and that effect on our marriage—and coming to terms and really facing that—and going down into the cliff, and going, “Okay, what are default patterns? What are ways that I focus more on ministry than I have on my marriage?” That’s some steep paths to go into, but it’s where we have found some deep satisfaction in drinking deeply from the Living Water.

Dave: How have you two navigated—because you’re on that rocky steep slope that He’s taking you down—but man, when you’re on that slope, it feels like sometimes you’re sliding down or hitting rocks on the way down. You’ve done it as a couple—I know David’s coming home, carrying stuff out of meetings with the Board, you name it—

David: I would say I would add on there—probably, the heaviest there to carry is: “Lord, we have a mission that has been around for decades; and we want to live out the full breadth of that mission,”—and trust God for what He has in the next decade and the next 40 years. There’s that weight, too, of not burying the talent—but yet, trusting Him for: “Lord, You want to keep working through marriages and families,”—so there’s that stewardship side of it, too, that can really get heavy.

We would just say—and I’ll speak for myself; you add on here—[Laughter]—of me going to the places where I have come to the end of myself, and facing it—and facing the false places I go to for security, or acceptance, or approval—and going, “Lord, it has to come from You, and I’ve got to root out any places for approval, acceptance, security that aren’t You or else this will crush me.”

It has taken us down on that steep path into my own story, and how that’s living out in our current [life], that brings more intimacy in marriage. It’s hard to go there; yet, to go into those places—and to journey into those false beliefs I have to keep life working when it’s not working—[Laughter]—but to come to the end of yourself; name those; and then, share those with your spouse and journey ahead, together, with that, that’s what has increased our intimacy and togetherness in this more than anything. It’s by going to the weak hard places.

What would you add to that?

Meg: Yes, I mean, I think it’s just knowing our own desperate need for the Lord, just knowing that we do come to the end of ourselves. Even moving FamilyLife from Arkansas down here, to Florida, that was huge—carrying the weight of leading in that and other people being sad about that—it’s like this big nebulous loss, that it’s hard. It’s not the loss of a person, so it’s different than a death—that we’ve walked through those things, too—but it’s just this cloud, that it’s kind of hard to process.

But even in that, it’s just like, “Okay, just coming back to being able to sit before the Lord with the hurt, and the pain, and knowing that He sits in it with us. He brings His water and restoration to those places.” And being able to sit in it together [with David]; and being honest and real about what we are feeling and the hard things that are there.

Dave: That was what I was thinking. I don’t want to interrupt; but when you said “together,”—and we talk about this at the Weekend to Remember®—it’s real easy, when a couple is going through a trial—it could be together; it could be he’s going through or she’s going through—it’s easy to do this—

Ann: —separate.

Meg: —separate.

Dave: —and we isolate. Because I’m sort of carrying something alone, and I want to tell her; but maybe, I’m afraid—for whatever reason—if you don’t invite them in, you will become isolated.

Ann: And I want to say, Dave, I look back on 43 years of marriage, and I think some of the greatest moments of our lives are times of desperation, where we are on our knees before Jesus.

Dave: Oh, yes.

Ann: Every time, when Scripture says, “And they cried out to the Lord,” He hears them. I think, for us, it was at our weakest moment, and it became the strength of our lives as Jesus entered into.

Dave: And one of them was right here in the studio—

Ann: I was going to say—

Dave: —Day 1—like you’re walking into the presidency role; we’re walking in the host’s role—we’re like—

Ann: He’s thinking, “We don’t want to mess it up!”

Dave: This ministry has been so blessed; and “It could end with us!” [Laughter] Yes, it’s a desperate moment.

David: Yes.

Dave: Yes; keep going in the Psalm. I’m thinking we’re just starting to dip into it.

David: Real quick before you go there: I’m just sitting on there’s another place that you can/that sheep get water also.

Meg: Oh, yes.

David: I think—you know, there’s the journey toward the deep ravines and the deep places/the challenges—but there’s, actually, also, a daily way; it’s a different source. I think it also/there’s these long narratives that we have to travel sometimes, and we have to persevere through and stay steadfast through—and ultimately, by leaning on Him, the ultimate steadfast One and faithful One—but there’s also the daily showing up in the midst, even when it is hard.

Meg: The other place is water from the dew on grass. If they get up and eat before the sun shines on the grass, and dries it up—and the sheep graze on grass that is wet from the dew—then they can get enough water to last them for the whole day, most of the time, which is fascinating to me!

Dave: —just from the dew.

Ann: So that’s the daily you’re talking about, David.

Meg: Yes. And so, in the same way, for us, it’s like: if we get up and choose to eat from God’s Word first—and certainly, that’s bread for our day; but also—it can be an access/a way to be filled with God’s Living Water, too, which will last and keep nourishing us as we go on. Because He will bring back to mind things that we encounter, and see, and experience with Him in the morning—those things will keep feeding us throughout the day.

And it will remind us—I know for me, at least, if I choose to keep my phone wherever it is, and leave it, and go to God’s Word first, and spend time with Him and pray—then God is going to continue to recall those things to my heart and my mind throughout the day. That’s just going to kind of be my bent for the day—is to go to Him—because I went to Him first.

David: Yes; so keep going in Psalm 23. That’s good; it was worth saying, “There is that daily nature of: ‘There is a source there.’”

Dave: Yes, if you think the only way you’re going to get water is go down a rocky cliff—[Laughter]

David: Yes, right.

Dave: —”Please, there’s got to be another way.”

Meg: Yes; it’s refreshing to know you might not have to go down a rocky cliff to get water. [Laughter]

The next verse: “He restores my soul.” He pursues us; He restores my soul. I love that it doesn’t say, “Get up and go restore your soul.” We don’t do that for ourselves; Jesus does that with love, and tenderness, compassion, a lot of patience.

One thing I found so interesting that Phillip Keller talks about is that sheep like to burrow out a comfy little hole in the dirt and just rest for a while. But if they’re not careful, they will keep digging in, deeper and deeper; and their feet will eventually go up over their heads, and they become what is called a cast sheep. They literally cannot get their feet back on the ground. Once their feet go up in the air, they’re stuck that way. Within two days, their circulation will get cut off and they’ll die.

You think about a shepherd counting his sheep. As soon as he realizes one is gone, one of the first thoughts that comes to his mind is, “They could be cast somewhere.” Even the strongest, fattest sheep, who seem like invincible, can get cast; and actually, they might even be more likely to because of their body distribution.

I know for me, this just resonated so much for me; because when we were in the middle of this time of just trying to take more rest—keep our schedule a little more clear—I was certainly having more time to connect with the Lord, and I felt like my emotions were coming alive again. But I realized, really quickly, that I couldn’t really cry in front of David. I [would] wipe my tears; and I’d feel these things kind of bubbling up, and I would press it down and hide it.

I quickly realized I was frustrated with myself; because that’s kind of a sign for us, in our marriage, when I’m not letting him into the emotions I’m feeling in the moment. I know, “Okay, there’s distance there; and I need to figure this out.” I felt disappointed in myself; I felt frustrated. I was like, “Here I am, in my little rut, and there’s separation here.” But I feel like God was so kind; He was like: “No, I’m not frustrated with you; I am restoring your soul,” and “I’m bringing some of your emotions back to life/back to your eyes—they’re getting a little leaky—that’s okay. Just make that choice, right now, to let David in.”

I did; I was like, “Hey, I just noticed my tendency is: ‘Wipe my tears—

Ann: Why do you get to that point, where you want to hide it? What is that?

Meg: I think, probably, it comes from having a little ongoing distance for—it can even be a short period of time—but feeling disconnected.

Ann: And there’s a place of vulnerability when I cry.

Meg: Yes, it does; it’s a choice of—whatever this thing is, even if it is small or big—“Okay, this is kind of risky to let you in.” Even after almost 22 years of marriage, it does still take vulnerability.

David: And the hard thing about vulnerability is [it is] risky; there is, “I can mishandle that moment.” You’ve been very kind to—when I do and come back and apologize—you forgive.

But yet, what I appreciated about, when you did realize that [and] come to me, it’s like my heart was melting, like, “I’ve created an environment where you’re hesitant to share with me a healthy emotion that’s surfacing.” I owned that; and, “Let’s go there.” It was like a lean-in moment, not a “How dare you not come to me,”-moment.

I think we all, obviously, are in different relationships in different seasons—may not always be in that moment—but that is the invitation God gives us, because He is the source. Therefore, we can risk, in vulnerability, because the other person is not the source; Jesus is.

Dave: What you just said is, I think, a great question to ask your spouse: “Have I created an environment that you feel hesitant to share yourself or be vulnerable?”

Ann: It’s an interesting thought—I’m just thinking, as women get older and they are in their marriage, they become less emotional—I’m wondering: “Why is that? Is it because they’re hiding some of their emotions, because they haven’t dealt with their emotions?” I don’t know the answer to that, but it’s an interesting thought.

Meg: Even at the table [as a family], we were watching these little short films that were about the holidays; they were really sweet. Of course, one of the kids says, “Mom, are you crying?” I feel like there is almost, culturally, [a questioning of that emotion]; and I was like [timidly], “Yes, I am; because that is just really sweet.” [Laughter] It was about kids growing older; and of course, that’s what we’re in the middle of, having a senior. I think there can be some shame and hiding, a tendency to cover up what we’re really feeling.

Dave: And yet, there’s a sense of: “Is my soul healthy?”

Meg: Yes.

Dave: Because a healthy soul will feel emotion.

David and Meg: That’s right.

Dave: I’ve had periods of my life, where it’s like blocked. I was at this men’s thing, just recently. Guys were sharing; I’m tearing up and crying. I’m like, “Aw, that feels good.” It wasn’t like I wanted to hide this from these guys, because there’s only guys in the room; but I thought, “There’s something good happening in my soul that I’m—it wasn’t sad crying—it was like, “Aw, this is emotional; this is good I’m feeling right now.”

David: Dave, the way you were sharing made me think of a seminary prof, who in teaching, said, “We like keeping the thermostat like our parents told us: “Never touch it!” [Laughter] and “Keep it between these two numbers,” and “Don’t you dare! Keep it right here!”—in the comfort zone I think is what my parents called it—“This is the comfort zone; do not dare go hot or cold outside of it.”

There is lament of going outside of the comfort zone—and healthy tears and sorrow that is good to be able to experience and share with your spouse and family—and there is joy and ecstasy in life, where you should go, “We should celebrate! This is amazing!” But yet, we’re so quick to go, “Keep it here; right here, in the comfort zone. Keep it normal: ‘Be normal, please.’”

I think the Lord—you read the Psalms—

Ann: “Is this the comfort zone or the dead zone?”; right? [Laughter]

David: There you go; yes!

Meg: Yes.

David: The neutral zone: where you just stay flat.

Ann: Yes; neutral, yes.

David: “Stay numb and neutral.”

Ann: Yes.

David: And the Lord invites us—yes, to have a lot of steady moments—but then, also, to bring our lament and sorrow and to bring our joys and rejoicing to Him—and allow space for that in our marriages together—and to not shun or shame a spouse, who is bringing that to you; to actually hold it sacred, and to tune into it, and to see what’s there.

Shelby: When I feel like I’m going to the extremes—either to the low end or the joyful end/the high end—sometimes, I do feel a little bit weird, like we were just talking about. The Psalms, if anything, give us permission to live on the margins; because when you read the Psalms, they are often in places of deep lament or really extreme joy to the point you read it, and you’re like, “David, get your life together; get a grip! Nobody’s really this sad,” or “Nobody’s really this joyful.” But people are! We are, and that gives us permission to live on those margins as well. If it was good enough for King David, it can be good enough for me.

I’m Shelby Abbott, and you’ve been listening to Dave and Ann Wilson with David and Meg Robbins on FamilyLife Today. I really enjoyed this conversation today because we’re talking about marriage; and sometimes, when it comes to your marriage, you can feel stuck. Well, we created a marriage study that is designed to help you get unstuck: this is FamilyLife’s Art of Marriage.

We’d love for you to gather some friends together; hit “Play,” and watch people open up as they realize that they aren’t the only ones who struggle with the blahs in marriage. This marriage study is really designed to help you grow deeper together, grow closer to God, and grow more connected with your community. It gives space for authentic and vulnerable conversations around challenging marriage topics. You can begin to explore God’s love for us and how His love can be displayed through our messy, imperfect marriages; yes, even your messy, imperfect marriage. You can go to the Show Notes, or you can go to ArtofMarriage.com, to learn more and grab your leader kit today. We’re really excited to share the all-new Art of Marriage with you and hear how it’s impacting your marriage relationship.

Now, tomorrow: “What are some of the signs that indicate that a marriage may be running on empty?” Well, Dave and Ann Wilson are back tomorrow with David and Meg Robbins to talk about just that; we hope you’ll join us. On behalf of Dave and Ann Wilson, I’m Shelby Abbott. We will see you back next time for another edition of FamilyLife Today.

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