Lost–and Finding Myself: Barbara Rainey

Barbara: I think God, sincerely, because He loves us and wants a relationship with us, wants us to see Him as He is. It’s the essence of marriage, right?

Ann: Yes.

Barbara: You want to know the person you’re married to, and really know him and really know her. I don’t think it’s any different with God. He wants us to really know Him as He is. 

Shelby: Welcome to FamilyLife Today, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I’m Shelby Abbott, and your hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson. You can find us at FamilyLifeToday.com.

Ann: This is FamilyLife—

Dave: —Today!

Dave: I hadn’t thought about this until this very second, but if you could do a percentage on me—and I wonder what yours would be—of the emotions that I’ve experienced in my walk with God over four decades—

Ann: —okay—

Dave: —I just realized, I think disappointment would be pretty high.

Ann: Really? We have never talked about this.

Dave: I know.

Barbara: This is great. I want to hear the rest of this.

Dave: I’ve never thought of it.

Barbara: You were just quickly cataloguing in your brain, and you’re thinking disappointment would be near the top?

Dave: Joy is in there.

Ann: You’re listening to Barbara Rainey, who is with us. She’s back with us today.

Dave: They already knew. They were thinking, “We know this voice.” [Laughter]

Barbara: “We can’t wait to”—okay, keep going.

Ann: Isn’t that an interesting—

Barbara: —yes, it’s a great comment.

Dave: As we started yesterday, with Barbara, talking about disappointment with God, I was just sitting here thinking, “Okay, now there’s joy, and there’s happiness—”

Barbara: —sure; of course.

Dave: “—and there’s contentment.” Again, I know these aren’t even emotion words. Psychologists [would say], “Dude, those aren’t even….”

Barbara: I know.

Dave: But disappointment is over 50 [percent] for me, at least; maybe over 60. Again, I am not complaining; I am not saying God hasn’t blessed my life. He has. I should, of all people, not even be saying this.

Ann: I’m going back over your life, and I’m thinking, “You had a father that was an alcoholic, a mother that was an alcoholic. Your little brother died. Your parents divorced. You’ve had some really hard things.”

Dave: And I think most of us have.

Ann: Okay, Barbara. Where would you rank yours? With disappointment, would that be a high percentage?

Barbara: It would be high, very high. It would be, like Dave, 50 or 60 percent anyway. The Christian life has been exponentially harder than I ever imagined it would be.

Dave: Yes.

Barbara: Really.

Dave: It’s been six years since you left the leadership of FamilyLife.

Barbara: Right.

Dave: It’s been five years since we left the leadership of a church we started thirty years ago. It’s been a hard journey for us.

Ann: One of the hardest.

Dave: I would say the hardest for me.

Barbara: Well, ditto. See, I didn’t know that. Isn’t that—that illustrates a part of this situation that we’re all in.

Dave: Yes.

Barbara: I had no idea this was a big, hard transition for you.

Dave: It’s been the hardest thing.

Barbara: There are plenty of people that would look at us and say, “Really? This has been hard for you?”

Dave: Yes, so talk about that a little bit.

Barbara: That’s interesting, isn’t it?

Ann: Yes.

Dave: I want to hear about the hard journey you’ve been on.

Barbara: One of the more difficult things has been, what we’ve now come to understand as, the loss of identity. That’s what you’re experiencing, too.

Dave: Yes.

Barbara: Because you have this certain sense of identity as a mom. I’ve been a mom all these years to these six kids. Then, when they’re all gone, and you hit the empty nest, it’s all of a sudden: “Who am I now, and what do I do with my life?” That’s a loss of identity.

Ann: For sure.

Barbara: Dennis and I, for sure, went through that when we left FamilyLife because for 40 years he had been the President of FamilyLife. He had hosted the broadcast, He’d been—

Ann: He started it. You both started it.

Barbara: Yes, he started it. He got calls every day, people sending books every day, and people asking him to speak forever and ever.

Dave: Right.

Barbara: He was just constantly saying, “No,” and it was like, all of a sudden, the spigots got turned off on everything.

We were sitting at home saying, “Well, now what?” and “Who are we?”

Dave: Yes, right.

Barbara: And “God, what do You have for us?” There’s no answer from God as to what He has for us. We’re waiting for an answer: “What do You have?” Here we are six years [out], and we’re still not sure what God has, so we just keep going a day at a time.

That’s a real, significant disappointment in all of our lives when we come to those places where our circumstances change, and we are not quite the same as we were before. In the course of this, I realized one day that that was what I was struggling with; about a year and a half into this. I went to my office where I’ve got all my favorite books. I pulled A Grace Disguised off the shelf, by Dr. Jerry Sittser. He’s been on the broadcast before.

Ann: What an interesting title, “A Grace Disguised.”

Barbara: I think that’s part of what we’re talking about. God takes us to these hard places, and it’s a grace for us, but we don’t see it that way.

Ann: Not at all.

Barbara: Yet, He’s trying to take us to the grace part. The first thing I did, when I grabbed that book, was I read the whole thing; but the chapter that stood out to me was the one on a loss of identity. When I read it, I thought, “That’s what we’re feeling.” That’s what both of us were feeling, and we couldn’t put a name on it. I gave him the book, and I said, “You have to read this! You just have to read it,” and he did.

There have been so many adjustments, and a lot of them are wrapped up in the loss of identity. But we’ve been trying to figure out, “Who are we?” because we’re different people than we were with the FamilyLife umbrella—

Ann: —yes—

Barbara: —and the FamilyLife family surrounding us. Those people weren’t there; the umbrella wasn’t there; the job description wasn’t there. We didn’t get up and go every day. It was a big adjustment to figure out who we are, “What does God want us to do?” and “How are we going to live life now?”

Dave: A lot of that—we experienced the same thing.

Barbara: I bet you did.

Dave: It’s interesting, being a chaplain for an NFL team for years, three decades, I would say to guys as they walked out of the NFL, either retired or injured or cut: “This isn’t who you are. This was never your identity,” and then it happened to me. To say that to somebody else, and then to look in the mirror and say: “Okay, do I believe that I am a valuable person in the world without—

Barbara: —without this.

Dave: —a stage to walk on, and people looking at me and saying, ‘Open the Word of God for us please’?” I didn’t’ have that anymore.

Ann: I’m thinking that same thing. When we had three boys five and under, and it was absolute chaos, I remember thinking to myself, “I don’t even have a life anymore.” But then, when they were all gone, I remember saying to Dave, “That was the best part of my life.” [Laughter]

Barbara: [Laughing] Isn’t that funny!?

Ann: I thought, “Now who am I?” I finally got good at it. I felt confident! And now, they’re gone. “Now who am I?”

Dave: I’m over here saying, “I’m here. I’m not important?”

Barbara: I know. Dennis said the same thing! [Laughter] He has said the exact same thing: “Hi, I’m here.”

Dave: Yes.

Ann: We’re saying this identity crisis can follow us. So, the question is: what have you discovered?

Barbara: I think what God wants us to discover in all of this that He is sufficient. We preach it all the time; we tell people.

Ann: Yes, we know it in the head.
 

Barbara: You told the athletes, right? But He’s saying, “Now, let Me show you that I am all you need, and I am sufficient.”

He takes us to these places, and He waits for us to hit the wall or come to the end of ourselves or whatever, and then, like Job, He says, “Okay, let Me show you a thing or two.” He rights our ship, and He lets us know a little bit more—a little peak more into—who He is.

We forget—this is one of the things I’m realizing; we forget—as believers, Who we worship. We forget who God is. We forget that He is mysterious. We want Him to be tangible, touchable, and [someone we can] figure out.

Ann: Yes.

Barbara: We forget that He is almighty; we forget that He is beyond comprehension. We relate to Him and treat Him, in a sense, as if He’s like us.

I think God is constantly trying to change that perception and say, “No, no, no. That’s not who I am. I want you to see that I’m grand and that I’m the Almighty,” which is, again, what He did with Job. He showed a glimpse of Himself to Job, and Job’s response was, “I repent. Now I see You as You are.” [Job 42:5-6, Paraphrased]

I think God, sincerely, because He loves us and wants a relationship with us, He wants us to see Him as He is. It’s the essence of marriage, right?

Ann: Yes.

Barbara: You want to know the person you’re married to, and really know him and really know her. I don’t think it’s any different with God. He wants us to really know Him as He is.

Ann: I’m thinking that’s probably what happened to you and Dennis in these last six years. You probably know one another in an even deeper way.

Barbara: We know each other much better, yes.

Ann: The same thing happens with God as we lean into Him.

Barbara, one of the things I’ve always loved about you is you love God’s Word.

Barbara: Yes.

Ann: I’m looking at your Bible that’s all marked up. As you’ve read Scripture, I know that has ministered to you—

Barbara: —yes, yes.

Ann: —as you’ve gone through this identity crisis.

Dave: And I’ll just add, as I said yesterday, I read your blog. You bring insights to the Word of God.

Ann: Yes.

Dave: It’s one of the reasons I keep reading. I think, “I didn’t see that.”

Barbara: Thank you.

Dave: You, even in this area of disappointment with God, I’ve already read it, but I want our listeners to hear your insights on Mary and Martha.

Barbara: The story of Mary and Martha is the one at the end of the book of John. We know about the first encounter when Martha was in the kitchen, and she was complaining, and Jesus said, “Martha, Martha, Mary has chosen the better….” [Luke 10:41-42, Paraphrased]

But in the book of John, He takes almost an entire chapter, chapter 11, and he tells the story of when Lazarus died. Jesus had not come when they first asked Him to come. They thought He was going to come immediately because he was their friend.

Ann: They’re good friends.

Barbara: Good friends! And He loved Mary and Martha. Mary and Martha knew that Jesus loved them. When He finally came, Lazarus had been in the grave four days. When Martha heard that Jesus was there, that He had finally come, she jumped up and ran down the road, and met Him, and got in His face—again, this is amazing to me—she said, and I imagine with great passion, and maybe even anger: “Jesus, if You had been here, he would not have died!”

Ann: Yes!

Barbara: “Why didn’t You come? I thought You loved me; I thought You loved us. Why did You not come?” [John 11:21, Paraphrased]

What is so interesting about that is that He came, and she said that to Him, and then, she said: “Even now, I know that whatever You ask of God, God will give You.” [John 11:22]

Then Jesus said to her, “Your brother shall rise again.” [John 11:23, Paraphrased]

Then Martha said to Him—I imagine this with some passion and emotion; she said to Him—“I know that he will rise again on the last day!” [John 11:24, Paraphrased] as if to say, “Come on, I know that! Don’t tell me something I already know.” Maybe that isn’t the way it happened, but—

Ann: —that’s how I would have said it.

Barbara: —that’s just how I picture myself feeling, even if I didn’t say it.

Ann: I would have said it.

Barbara: Then Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me shall live even if he dies.” [John 11:25, Paraphrased]

Martha is kind of getting calmed down. She heard the Master speak, and she heard Him say, “I am the resurrection and the life.” That had to have gotten her attention, because when Jesus said, “I am…,” she knew what that meant. I think that softened her. Then she responded to Him and said, “Yes, Lord”—and I hear humility now—

Ann: —yes—

Barbara: —“I have believed that You are the Christ, the Son of God, even He who comes into the world.” [John 11:27]

It was like she saw Jesus and remembered who He was. She said, “I will trust You.” She didn’t say that, but that was her heart attitude. He brought her to a place of saying, “I trust You.”

Then—this is what’s so cool, Jesus said to Martha, “Call your sister. Where is Mary? Call your sister.” Now, that is not in Scripture, but we know He said that because Martha left Jesus, and she went away and called Mary saying, “The Teacher is here, and He is calling for you.” [John 11:28, Paraphrased]

That just gives me chills when I read it—

Ann: —yes—

Barbara: —because Mary didn’t go. She heard that Jesus had come, and she didn’t go. Why didn’t Mary go? Why did only Martha get up and run? They are two very different people; that’s why. Martha is bold; she’s in charge; she’s the eldest. She wanted to get the facts. She wanted to confront Jesus and find out, “Why were You not here?”

But Mary—Mary was the sensitive one. She was the one who sat at His feet and listened. I think Mary was so crushed and so wounded and so disappointed in God that she couldn’t get up off the floor; she couldn’t get up out of the fetal position on her chair or couch. I think she thought: “Well, Jesus is here, but it’s too late. He could have fixed this.”

Ann: She probably felt so hopeless.

Barbara: I think she felt terribly hopeless and defeated.

So, Martha comes; she says to Mary: “The Teacher is here, and He’s calling for you.” I just love that about Jesus, because I imagine that’s what He’s saying to all of us every day in every situation: “The Teacher is here, and He’s calling for you.”

The question is: will we get up and go?

Ann: Yes.

Barbara: But Mary did. Mary got up and went. “And when she heard it, she arose quickly and came to him.” [John 11:29, Paraphrased]

Then it says, “Now Jesus had not yet come into the village, but was still in the place where Martha had met him” [John 11:30], which also is very cool. He didn’t move. He stayed in one spot and waited for her. I wonder how long He stood there waiting for her, but I think He would have [waited].

Dave: You got Ann crying. She’s crying.

Barbara: I know.

Ann: In the same way, He’s waiting for us.

Barbara: He is waiting for us.

Ann: He’s always there. He’s always waiting for us.

Barbara: And we think He’s not.

Ann: [Laughter]Yes!

Barbara: I just think, “What is wrong with me that I forget that He’s waiting for me all the time?” But He is; He’s always waiting for me to come to Him.

“Therefore, when Mary came to where Jesus was, she saw Him, and she fell at His feet, saying to Him, “Lord, if You had been here, my brother would not have died.” [John 11:32] Now, those words are identical, word-for-word, with what Martha said, but look at the difference. Martha was standing up, she was attacking Jesus (almost) verbally with her words, “If you had been here, my brother would not have died.”

But Mary is on the ground at His feet and crying, saying, “If You had been here, he wouldn’t have died.” The difference in these two women, and how they came to Jesus, and what they said is very revealing about how unique we are as people. They were very different sisters.

Dave: And they’re both disappointed.

Barbara: —both disappointed.

Dave: They just expressed it in different ways.

Barbara: Both expressed it in two very different ways.

Ann: Yes.

Barbara: “When Jesus, therefore, saw her weeping, He Himself was moved in His spirit, and He was troubled, and He wept. [John 11:33,35, Paraphrased] What I realize from this story is that, for Martha, Jesus had words, He answered her questions, her intellectual questions; but for Mary, Jesus had tears. He met her with what communicated to her. He cried with her because that was what she needed and that was where she was. He met her in that place of emotion.

I just love that picture of Jesus. He knows us so individually and so uniquely. He knows what we need, and He meets us where we are.

Dave: You know, it’s interesting to hear you say that, because so often—I’m guessing I preached this decades ago—you think, when you read that Jesus wept—everybody says, “[It’s the] shortest verse in the Bible—you have this question of, “Well, He knew what He was going to do, so why is He weeping?”

Barbara: Why would He weep? Yes.

Dave: You just gave us a perspective that I’ve never heard before. He’s weeping because He’s connecting with the emotion of Mary.

Barbara: Well, He loves Mary.

Ann: Yes.

Dave: He’s not weeping for a Lazarus who is dead, because He knows—

Barbara: No, no.

Dave: He’s connecting to our pain. It’s a beautiful picture!

Barbara: It is a beautiful picture.

Dave: Our God—if you’re weeping, He’s weeping. He’s with you in that dark place.

Barbara: Yes, and it’s why, when we go to people (to homes of people) who have lost someone, or they’re in grief, or you go to a hospital room or something, you feel emotion for these people.

Dave: That’s right.

Barbara: You love them, you hug them; and sometimes, we cry with them. It’s a comfort; it’s identifying and being with that person in their grief. Jesus was with Mary in her grief.

Ann: I’m telling you, as you’re reading the story, and you’re sharing this Barbara, I think, “This is why we have to be in the Word!”

Barbara: It is why we have to be in the Word.

Ann: ­Because we understand, we see who He is; we understand His greatness, His empathy, His kindness, His goodness, His holiness.

I’ve shared with so many people [that] I have to be in the Word every day, not because I’m holy. It’s because I’m so desperate that I need to know Him!

Barbara: Exactly!

Ann: I have so many thoughts that are racing and troubling that the Word grounds me. It makes me see who Jesus is and His love for us; and it's compelling. It makes you fall on your face before Him—

Barbara: —exactly, exactly.

Ann: —even in our disappointment, knowing that He weeps with us.

Barbara: Yes, yes.

Dave: Sometimes, as I think we’ve all experienced, when you’re disappointed and you’re really struggling with God, it’s the last thing you want to do. “I’m not going to open His Word. I’m sort of hurt; I’m mad; I’m in pain.”

Barbara: Yes.

Dave: “I don’t want to listen to worship music.” It’s almost like [when I say], “I don’t want to work out.” Guess what? Get in the gym!

Barbara: Yes.

Dave: It’s going to be the best thing you can do. Open the Word, even if you can’t see the words because you’re crying so hard, open the Word, or maybe listen to the Word; whatever it takes. You’ve got to let your eyes see Him, because He’s there; He wants to reveal Himself and He will.

Barbara: And He will, yes.

Ann: I think we’re all different. I need a friend with me sometimes when I’m so angry. First, though, I need to vent it to God. I think sometimes we can rely on friends and people so much that we don’t go to Jesus and tell Him what we’re thinking and feeling and when we feel His absence, “Where are You, God?”

Barbara: Yes, yes.

Ann: But I have had friends lay their hands on me and pray for me, and all I can do is weep. Sometimes, that’s a really good place—

Barbara: —yes—

Ann: —but other times, I don’t want to be around anybody.

Barbara: I think the real tragedy for all of us is that we don’t go to Him first. I don’t go to Him first. I freely admit it. I wish it were not so, but my tendency is to try to fix whatever I’m in. I’ll go to the Word, but I don’t necessarily go broken, like Mary and Martha were. I don’t necessarily go and fall before Him as a first response. I think our nature is to try to fix things first, and we end up going to Him second or third or fourth!

Dave: Yes.

Ann: I would agree with that. I go to Him when I am out of control, if it’s a sickness or a death where I can’t do anything. But you’re right, if I can have a part of it, I’m all about fixing it myself!

Barbara: Yes; and He knows that about us.

Ann: Yes!

Barbara: And He knows that we’re prone to do it on our own first and go to Him last. That’s what the disciples did in the boat.

Dave: Right.

Barbara: I mean, they rowed, and they rowed, and they rowed. They were trying to fix it and not have to wake Jesus and not bother Jesus. He would say, “When are you going to bother me?” I’m sure. “Wake me up, and I can fix this.”

Dave: There’s a listener, or thousands, who right now are in the storm, and they feel like God’s asleep—

Barbara: —oh, I’m sure.

Dave: —or God isn’t—He’s four days away, and it’s too late.

Ann: Barbara, I would love for you to pray.

Barbara: I would love to.

Dave: Because their marriage is over, or their child is wayward; whatever it is, they have lost hope.

Ann: If you’re—

Dave: They’re listening to this, and they need to know that God—everything we said, they need to actually believe today and feel.

Ann: And if you’re working out, or if you’re walking, stop for a second; not if you’re driving, but maybe pull off the side of the road. But if you’re working out or walking, stop for a second and receive this prayer.

Barbara:

Lord, God, we love You. We thank You that You have redeemed us. Thank you for the sacrifice of Christ on our behalf.

But Father, we come and say we are so often disappointed, we are so often in hard places. We don’t know what to do, and yet like little children, we frantically try to fix it and put the pieces back together. We work so hard to make everything better.

You’re waiting, like you waited on the road for Martha and for Mary. You wait for us to come to You. You wait for us to say, “Jesus, help.” We’re so reluctant to say, “Help.” Yet, that’s what You long to hear from us.

Father, I want to pray for listeners who are in seasons of really painful disappointment, difficult circumstances. In the middle of the storm, You want us to say, “Help, Jesus. Will You help me? Will You give me a glimpse of You? Will You help me to see You and to run to You like Mary and Martha did?”

I pray, Father, that You will give each one of them courage to go to You. Give them courage to get up out of the chair and write in the journal. Give them courage to get up and get their Bible and start reading the Bible every day. Give them courage to do the thing that they need to do that will connect them to You, because when we get connected to You, the circumstances aren’t going to necessarily change and likely won’t, but what You want us to do in the middle of those circumstances that don’t change is You want us to say, “Help, Jesus,” and “I trust You,” and “I will wait for You to work out whatever it is You’re going to work out.”

We forget how near You are; we forget how much You love us. But I pray that you will help us to come to You more and more quickly and more often, and that we will know You as You are and not as we hope that you will be or pretend that You are, but we will know You as You really are. May it be for our good and Your glory. We ask in Jesus’s Name. Amen.

Ann: Amen.

Dave: Amen.

Shelby: How blessed we have been today with Dave and Ann Wilson as they’ve been joined by the co-founder of FamilyLife Today, Barbara Rainey.

I’m Shelby Abbott, and I wanted to let you know that this weekend coming up tonight and going all the way through Sunday, we want to ask you to pray for the upcoming Weekend to Remember^® event that’s happening in Scottsdale, Arizona. From tonight, all the way through Sunday, couples are getting together to work on their marriages, grow closer to one another and, of course, grow closer to God.

If that sounds like something that you would want to do, too, I wanted to you know that there are over 80 dates and locations available nationwide for FamilyLife’s Weekend to Remember marriage getaway. You have the flexibility to choose a venue that suits you the best and, whether you prefer a local retreat or a destination weekend, there is something for everyone.

If you want more details, and you want to explore all the locations where the Weekend to Remember is, you can head over to FamilyLifeToday.com and check out the show notes.

I wanted to also let you know that season four of Married with Benefits^® is hosted by Brian Goins, and he’s joined again this season by Harvard-trained researcher and author Shaunti Feldhahn.

They’re talking this season about the surprising secret of highly happy marriages; the little things that make a difference. You can subscribe now to Married with Benefits wherever you get your podcasts or head over to our YouTube^® channel; just search for FamilyLife’s Married with Benefits.

Now, coming up next week, Dave and Ann Wilson are joined by Dr. Gary Chapman. He’s going to talk about five traits of a healthy family. That’s next week. We hope you’ll join us.

On behalf of Dave and Ann Wilson, I’m Shelby Abbott. We will see you back next time for another edition of FamilyLife Today.

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