Never Retire from Spiritual Growth: Dennis & Barbara Rainey

Episode Transcript

FamilyLife Today® National Radio Version (time edited) Transcript

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Never Retire from Spiritual Growth

Guests:Dennis and Barbara Rainey

From the series:Growing Older without Growing Old (Day 2 of 3)

Air date:August 15, 2024

Ann: Dave and I had the chance to speak at a marriage conference this past spring. This woman came up, in her early 30s. As soon as I saw her, she hugged me and started crying. I said, “Hey, what’s your name? What’s your story?” She said, “I’ve gone through the hardest year because I lost my mom a few years ago.” She said, “I felt like the mentor in my life is gone. I go to a good church. This is going to sound crazy to you, but you and Dave are my mentors now through listening to FamilyLife Today.” She said, “I feel like I’m being discipled. I feel like the gospel has a whole new meaning of how it can apply to my marriage and my parenting.” I just hugged her; because I thought, “This is amazing.”

Dave: I remember seeing you guys over there, talking and hugging; I thought, “What’s that all about?”

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Dave: It’s a limited-edition FamilyLife—

Ann: It is!

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We love you guys; thanks for being our partners.

Dennis: I’m all about passing on the reality of Jesus Christ, generationally, within our family and beyond that to other families. I think it’s a natural place for discipleship, for evangelism, and for reaching other people; because people are looking for hope today. I think that’s why we’re here.

Shelby: Welcome to FamilyLife Today, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I’m Shelby Abbott, and your hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson. You can find us at FamilyLifeToday.com.

Ann: This is FamilyLife—

Dave: —Today.

Dave: We’ve got Dennis and Barbara Rainey back in the studio today.

Ann: It’s such a good day when they’re here!

Dave: It’s awesome! They created this show; we’re just running behind them. Here’s what I remember, just looking across at you guys—and by the way, founder/president of FamilyLife—

Barbara: —40 years.

Dave: —40 years!

Barbara: —40-plus?

Dennis: Well, it wasn’t a ministry initially; I was the National Director of the Marriage Preparation and Family—

Barbara: —Emphasis.

Dennis: —Emphasis.

Dave: That’s right!

Ann: Emphasis.

Dennis: —Emphasis. They wouldn’t even let us become a ministry until we grew up. [Laughter]

Barbara: —which we needed to do.

Dennis: We did.

Dave: Well, I wondered/this just came to my mind: do you remember—you don’t know the year, but it was 1989—we’re joining the speaker team. That’s the year, whoever, came up with the idea the new speakers have to do a—

Barbara: —have to do a skit.

Dennis: —a skit.

Dave: They have to introduce themselves. We almost got fired on our opening skit. [Laughter]

Dennis: You did.

Dave: We did this little rap; and again, we don’t need to get into it.

Barbara: Well, you had on black leather jackets.

Ann: Not at first.

Dave: Well, we started with flannel—

Barbara: Oh, you did?

Dave: —and jeans; because—

Barbara: I just remember black leather.

Ann: —farmers; we’re farmers.

Dave: The rap was: “We grew up in Ohio,”—

Barbara: —farmers; okay, I missed that. I don’t remember that.

Dave: —sort of country folk—and then, we rip off our shirts.

Ann: That’s probably what you remember. [Laughter]

Barbara: It may be.

Dave: I have a little tank top on and one glove, because we’re going to rap; I’m going to be Michael Jackson. [Laughter]

Barbara: I was thinking there was black leather somewhere; yes.

Ann: Yes, yes!

Dave: Yes, so we start this little rap. I’ll never forget—Crawford and Dennis are in the front row, and their jaws were like [Laughter]—and I’m thinking, “We’re getting fired, right now. We’re not even, technically, on the team yet; and we’re getting fired!” [Laughter]

Dennis: Never came close to that. [Laughter]

Barbara: No, but we loved it! It was so creative and entertaining. Anyway, I loved it.

Dave: It was life-changing for us; that’s why we’re here.

Ann: And we felt incredibly honored to be on the speaker team with the Weekend to Remember®, to get to know you guys a little bit better.

Dave: Yes, you became mentors.

Dennis: Well, here’s what I marvel at: I think about the first conference you came to, in 19—

Ann: —1980.

Dave: We’re engaged. You were our preparation for marriage, two weeks before our wedding day.

Barbara: Oh, it was that soon.

Dennis: Oh, wow!

Ann: So we struggled horribly. Six months in, we were headed downward. We barely took a note at the Weekend to Remember marriage getaway.

Dave: —because we thought, “We don’t need it.

Barbara: Because you were two weeks away from your wedding, yes.

Dave: “We love Jesus; we love each other. We’re going into ministry.” [Laughter]

Ann: “We love Jesus! We’re not going to struggle.”

Dave: “Who cares I came from two alcoholic parents and a divorced family. We’re going to be fine.”

And then, we struggled. We’re on staff with Athletes in Action®. They sent us to the University of Nebraska. The first football player I met said, “Hey! So you’re here to do ministry with the athletes.” “Yes.” “Well, I don’t think you know this; but a lot of us are married. Could you and Ann lead a marriage Bible study for us?” I’m thinking, “You’ve got the wrong couple! [Laughter] Because we don’t even like each other.” But, of course, I looked at him, and I said, “Sure; we’d love to.”

Barbara: “Sure!”

Dave: And guess what we did?

Dennis: You led it.

Dave: Weekend to Remember manual.

Barbara: You pulled the—

Ann: We pulled out the manual.

Dave: —and we taught it.

Barbara: And did that make sense—

Dave: And it saved our marriage.

Barbara: —to you then, when you were teaching it?

Ann: It saved us!

Dave: Yes.

Ann: We were like, “This is the most amazing gospel-centered material. It’s a biblical game plan of how to make a marriage work,”—which is what the Weekend to Remember conference is.

Dave: Yes.

Barbara: —which is true; it is.

Ann: And it saved our marriage. We don’t even know if it helped anybody else, but it helped us. [Laughter]

Dennis: God is all about second chances and redemption. Less than ten years later, you’re standing up in front of people, at the Weekend to Remember—

Dave: —teaching it.

Dennis: —teaching it!—and still are!

Ann: Isn’t that God?! [Laughter]

Barbara: Yes.

Dave: —still are.

And there’s also another lesson—we’ve said it many times—“You want to save your marriage? Give it away.”

Dennis: Oh, yes.

Dennis: Because you already think it’s—you turn inward—and that’s good; you need to focus on each other—but when you serve others/Jesus said it this way [Matthew 10:39 paraphrase]: “You want to find your life? Lose it. Lose it in service of Me; you’re going to find your life.” I, literally, don’t know if [another] marriage was saved; ours was, because we gave it away.

Here we are! [Laughter] It’s a perfect transition because we’re going from early days—when I had hair and we were running fast; and now, no hair and can’t run [Laughter]—

Ann: Aww! You do pretty well.

Dennis: Understood.

Dave: —I run and pull hamstrings now, because I’m playing seniors softball; that’s a whole other thing.

But anyway, let’s talk about how to finish well. Yesterday, we started a conversation with you that you’ve done a lot of thinking on. I’m hoping it becomes a book; I’m hoping this is something we can read and share with the world, through literature, in the next couple of years about growing older, not becoming old.

Remind our listeners where we started yesterday; because we’re going to talk about: “How do we do that?”

Barbara: Well, we started yesterday with the first principle that we’ve figured out, which is called: “Growing older, not old” and “Becoming a life-long disciple.” The antidote to becoming old—an old person—is growing; and staying alive and staying active; and engaging with people; and doing what we’ve always done in life, which is to get to know people and reach out—and just as you said a minute ago—giving your life away. I think the way to not become old is to stay active, be intentional.

As we looked at the verse out of John 21 [verse 22] yesterday, too, Jesus said to Peter, “…follow Me.” His challenge to all of us, who belong to Him, is to be a follower, all the way to the very end. Don’t stop following; keep following all the way to the end.

Dennis: Keep learning. A verse we don’t hear much about these days—that we heard a lot about as college students—was Jesus’ promise. He said, “I have come that they might have life and that they might have it abundantly.”

Ann: Yes.

Dennis: What are we talking about as we are growing older?—life!—how we’re doing life.

If you don’t start out, when you’re younger, that becomes more difficult to get on that playing field when you’re 50, 60, 70—when you need to be growing older on purpose and making an impact—giving your life away, like you talked about.

Ann: It’s interesting; my sister was the first person in our family to give her life to Jesus. She shared the gospel with me; I was second. no one else in our family was following our new Christ. So all of us [eventually] became believers but my dad. He’s the one who said to me, “Hey, don’t get any ideas. Your sister, I know, she’s into this Jesus thing; but you’re strong, like me; you don’t need that.”

So to watch the end of his life, being 92—very successful: built several businesses, lived on a golf course with a big house that he built—at the end of his life, he’s in assisted living with a little one bedroom. My mom had just passed; they had been married over 70 years. I walk into his room of his assisted living place; all the workers are in his room. I’m like, “Hey! What’s up?!” This young woman, who’s probably in her 20s, says, “Oh, this is where we love to hang out.” I said, “What?!” She says, “Oh, yes; we all have our lunch breaks here.” I said, “Really?” She says, “Oh, we love your dad. He asks us questions; he asks us advice; but the best thing he does is he always tells us something great about ourselves.”

Dennis: Wow!

Ann: I was blown away. Weren’t you, Dave, to watch him?

Dave: Yes, he just really went from a selfish self-centered person to serving his wife, as she went through dementia; and then, giving his life away to others. It was pretty cool.

One of the most beautiful things about it is—when Ann and I were dating, just a few months before that conference, where we met you at the Weekend to Remember—we got on our knees in her living room, at her parents’ house, and said, “God, as we get married, we’re asking You to use us to lead this whole family to Jesus.” No one was a believer yet except her sister; and He did! We knew—

Dennis: That’s cool.

Dave: —and we learned it at the Weekend to Remember—“Marriage isn’t about you; it’s never going to be about you. It’s not about your happiness,”—hopefully, you’re happy—”but it’s about mission. You’re on mission!”

Ann: My dad was an avid learner until the day he died.

Dave: There you go.

Ann: And he loved people. I watched him—everything has been torn from him—he couldn’t even walk; he’s in a wheel chair! And yet, everyone flocked to his room; because he was so interested in them. It reminds me of Jesus!

Barbara: What a great example.

Ann: Yes.

Dave: So keep learning. Give us another one.

Dennis: Second thing that I think we need to be doing is: “We need to be growing in our purpose: ‘Why has God got you here?’” I think the person who is growing older knows who he is, or who she is—as God’s [child]—and he also knows what he is called by God, and commissioned by God, to do. I want to give a very, very strange illustration at this point.

Henri Nouwen wanted to go to a monastery to see how priests lived and to gain—I think to learn and to grow—as a result of it. He tells the story in a book that contains his journaling, as he was growing older. One of the stories he told was a guy by the name of Philippe Petit, a Frenchman, who was caught at 7:40 in the morning in New York City, in [1974], walking between the Twin Towers—World Trade Center 1—when it was still there—and World Trade Center 2.

Barbara: What was so dramatic: that some guy started tightrope walking with no net, no nothing.

Ann: He didn’t have a net?!

Barbara: No!

Dennis: No; he walked across, nothing underneath him.

Of course, he was arrested when he got to the other side by the police. The police asked him, “Philippe, why did you do that?” Here’s what he said: “When I see three oranges, I have to grab them and juggle them; I was made to juggle those balls. When I see two towers, I have to string a rope between them and walk it.” He had done this all over the world, other major cities; this was not the only one.

Here’s what Henri Nouwen asked at the end of this story: “What are your three oranges and two towers?”

Ann: Ooh, that’s a good one.

Barbara: Isn’t that a good question?

Dennis: Because all of us, according to Ephesians, Chapter 2, verse 10, “We are created in Christ Jesus for good works, which He has laid out for us to walk in them.” He’s actually made us a work of art/a divine work of art, with all these capacities and desires. It really is a good question.

Dave: What are yours?

Dennis: Well, I’ve had some time to think about it. I’m all about passing on the reality of Jesus Christ, generationally, within our family and beyond that to other families. Because I think the family is in trouble. And I think it’s a natural place for discipleship, for evangelism, and for reaching other people; because people are looking for hope today. I think that’s why we’re here.

Ann: Barbara, let me ask you: some people may hear that, and think, “Nobody wants to listen to me anymore. I’m old; they don’t even care.” What would you say to them?

Barbara: Well, first of all, I don’t think that’s true; because as the story you told about your dad illustrates, there are plenty of people who want somebody to care about them. There are so many lonely people in this world.

One of my favorite role models, and this is somebody I never met—actually, it’s two women I never met—but my friend, Susan Yates, has told me the story about her mother and her mother-in-law, who both, in their 90s, were leading Bible studies with college girls. The contrast of someone in their 90s and college girls just doesn’t seem to match.

Dave: Right; right.

Barbara: But these college girls, just like the nurses in your dad’s room, wanted to hear someone who was interested in them. These two older women, in their 90s, cared about these college girls and taught them the Bible. And they [students] came every week to their apartment, or wherever it was that they both lived. They would sit in the living room and listen to these older women teach them the Bible.

I think that’s an opportunity that is available to anybody, who’s a believer in Christ: “No matter where you are, no matter where you live—and it may not be a group; it may be one person; it may be somebody in your neighborhood or somebody in your family or somebody nearby; I don’t know—but God has someone for you to give your life to.

Ann: I’m seeing this more and more of this whole generation: this longing to be re-parented.

Dennis: Oh, no question.

Barbara: Oh, we are.

Ann: Are you seeing it, too?

Dennis and Barbara: Oh, yes.

Ann: They’re dying for somebody older. I say to people: “If you’ve been married several times, you’re not disqualified,”—

Barbara: No; absolutely not.

Ann: — “If you’ve been divorced, you have learned a lot; and you’ve gone through a lot. There are people who are longing to learn under you.”

Barbara: Yes.

Dave: I’m not going to put words in your mouth; but I know one of your thoughts on how to keep growing older and not becoming old is: “Put younger people around you”; right?

Dennis: Yes; oh, yes.

Dave: I think one of the best things—we didn’t even realize—for 33 years, being the Detroit Lions chaplain, we’re around 20-year-olds! [Laughter]

Barbara: Right.

Dave: —25-year-olds, 28-year-olds.

Ann: It kept us young!

Barbara: Well, yes.

Dave: They keep you vibrant.

Dennis: Oh, yes they do.

Dave: They challenge you, and they want what you have. I remember saying to a player, years ago, when I was getting older. I was probably in my 40s. I said to Luther, “Hey, I think I’m done.” He says, “What?!” I said, “I used to be the age of the players, and I could relate to them. Now, I’m as old as their parents. I think I’m done.” He says, “Dude, are you crazy?! These are the best years.” I’m like, “Why do you say that?” He says, “Now, you’re our mentor.

Dennis: Exactly.

Dave: “We don’t want a peer; we don’t want a peer.”

Dennis, you said to me, when I turned 60—you probably said this to a lot of 60-year-olds; but you said it to me, and I never forgot it—you said, “Best decade of your life.” I said, “Whatever, dude! This is not going to…” [Laughter] “This can be the best…”—you inspired me to run into my 60s, like, “This is not [where] you’re finishing slow; you are now at a place where God can really, really use you.”

Dennis: You may be slower—

Barbara: Sure.

Dennis: —to finish the race. [Laughter] But I’m thinking of a man, who was instrumental in my early formative years of walking with Christ. His name was H.D. McCarty. He was the pastor at University Baptist Church in Fayetteville, Arkansas. He had one fourth of the student body, on an annual basis, come to that church—

Dave: Wow.

Dennis: —now, not every day/not every Sunday—but H.D. was relevant and was preaching it.

I watched him growing older. I had lunch with him the other day; he would not let me come and pick him up, and he’s 91 years old. [Laughter]

Dave: That’s a little scary.

Barbara: He drove.

Dennis: Yes; well, let’s not get into that—okay?—

Barbara: Yes, we tried really hard.

Dennis: —because we’re all headed there. Anyway, he wouldn’t let me pick him up.

We walked into this hamburger joint in Fayetteville. And he was back in the kitchen—

Ann: What?! [Laughter]

Dennis: —challenging these young men—it was two brothers who put this barbeque burger place together—and he was challenging them: “Are you doing what’s right?” “Are you living for Christ?”

Dave: Really.

Ann: And he doesn’t even care what they think of him anymore. [Laughter]

Dennis: He doesn’t!

Barbara: No, but the weight that that carries—for someone, who’s that age, who’s willing to walk into the kitchen, and ask you, “Are you living for Christ?”—you’re going to go, “Oh, I need to pay attention to this guy.” There’s something about—

Ann: There’s a weightiness.

Barbara: —that authority that comes with age: “If he really cares about me to ask me, I really need to pay attention to this.”

We love being around H.D.; both of us do. Because I went to the church as much as he [Dennis] did—he was employed—but I went every Sunday, too, and learned so much from him. When we get a call from him on the phone, we’re both are—he’s on the phone and I’m listening—because I want to hear every word he has to say! [Laughter] It’s a treasure; it’s a treasure.

Dave: Because nobody wants to be around old grumpy—

Dennis: They don’t! He is alive.

Barbara: But when H.D. calls—he’s 91—I want to hear every word he has to say. There’s a big difference in older and becoming old.

Ann: He’s still fiery for Christ.

Dennis: Oh, he is!

Barbara: Yes; oh, absolutely.

Dennis: In fact, what we’re talking about—is how he’s finishing and what he’s thinking about—proclaiming Christ. He’s finishing a book. [Laughter] He has had this book going for 30 years—he’s 91; keep in mind—

Barbara: He’s been working on this book his whole life.

Dennis: —but he’s got these people around him now who are helping him get that book—it’s a 1,000 pages long—it’s going to need an editor. [Laughter]

Dave: Yes, it is.

Dennis: But when you get together with H.D.—something you said, Dave, just reminded me of it—H.D.’s had a couple of strokes. He talks haltingly, but he does get it out. But what he’s talking about has so much substance, and life, and Jesus Christ—and it’s always about that—it was always about that on Sunday morning when he preached. He was the most Christ-centered preacher/teacher that I’ve ever heard/ever known. He just wanted to talk about who Jesus is—what Jesus has done for us—and confront people with Him so they come to faith in Him. He said, “All of eternity is based on that.”

Barbara: The thing that H.D. is doing—now, he’s 91; he can’t get around very well—but he calls people. He has this list of people who were very important to him through the years—he calls these people; he’s calling two or three people every week—and he keeps calling.

You may not have the ability to lead a Bible study somewhere; but you can have a cell phone, and you can pick up a phone and call people and encourage them on the phone. Because every time he calls us, it’s like, “Oh, H.D.’s on the phone. What does he have to say?” We want to hear every word he has to say. That’s a very practical thing that anybody can do, because people are longing to be encouraged and to be thought of—just to have your phone ring and have somebody say, “I was thinking about you; how are you doing?”—that means the world.

Dave: Yes; when I hear you talk about H.D.—and I don’t know him—but I can feel your excitement about his excitement.

Here’s what I think: “If there’s a word that describes a lot of older people, who are living old—not growing older—but living old, what’s the word that comes to your mind? Because I had a word come to my mind.

Dennis: Withdrawal.

Dave: Yes; pull away.

Dennis: Yes; death.

Dave: Yes, it’s like they’re done.

I had a word come to me: cynical.

Ann: Mine was self-centered: it’s about their pain, and their situation, and what they’ve lost.

Dave: You hear that—and you’re like, “No! I do not want to be that person,”—but I think you are saying, “You will become that person unless you grow older.

Barbara: That’s right.

Dave: “It’s got to be a growing process.”

Barbara: Because H.D. could stop calling, because he has a hard time with language now. But it has not stopped him from making phone calls.

Dennis: He thinks at the speed of light, okay? [Laughter]—but translating it through his tongue into words—all that—and I just listen to him; I say, “Great to be with you, H.D.” And I’ll call him after I get back from this trip, and we’ll chat for a little bit.

Here’s the thing: H.D. could have been a victim. He grew up in Highland Park, Texas/in North Dallas. He once told me the only thing he ever heard his dad promise him was a lie. He said, “One Saturday morning, I was sitting, eating cereal. My dad came down, and walked out the screen door, and said, ‘See you later, son.’ And the next minutes that followed, there was a scurry of people around his house/H.D.’s house as a boy. He went outside to see what was going on. He walked out into the garage and found his dad, having shot himself.”

Ann: Ahhh!

Dave: Wow.

Dennis: He could be a victim,—

Dave: Yes.

Dennis: —but he’s not! You know why? Because the One who said, “I have come that you might have life and have it abundantly,” spoke that into H.D.’s life; and he’s been living it ever since.

Hang out with those kind of people—whew!—you’re going to be changed; they’re going to rock your world. We all need to make sure we’re listening to the right voices today.

Shelby: I’m Shelby Abbott; and you’ve been listening to Dave and Ann Wilson, with Dennis and Barbara Rainey, on FamilyLife Today. The ministry of FamilyLife has really made it’s mark in so many different marriages and families. I’d love it if you would make your mark alongside of us. One of the things that we’re trying to do this month is raise $250,000 in new funds by the end of August. We’d love it if you would partner with us/link arms with us—the ministry of FamilyLife—to help reach marriages and families all over the country and all over the world.

When you do—and you partner with us—with any donation that you make, we’re going to send you a FamilyLife pen along with a copy of Brant Hansen’s Unoffendable. It’s just a small way of us saying, “Thank you for partnering with us, supporting this ministry, and being part of the solution when it comes to reaching marriages and families for the glory of Jesus Christ.” Again, you can head over to FamilyLifeToday.com to make your donation. Or give us a call at 800-358-6329; again, that number is 800-“F” as in family, “L” as in life, and then the word, “TODAY.”

Now, tomorrow, Dennis and Barbara Rainey are back as they explore topics like heaven and discuss the eternal significance of living with purpose in your later years. That’s tomorrow; we hope you’ll join us. On behalf of Dave and Ann Wilson, I’m Shelby Abbott. We will see you back next time for another edition of FamilyLife Today.

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