Nurturing Creativity in Your Home: Ashlee Gadd

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Nurturing Creativity in Your Home

Guest:Ashlee Gaddd

From the series:Create Anyway (Day 2 of 2)

Air date:October 15, 2024

Ashlee: At the end of my life, I’m not going to be sitting on my death bed wishing I would have vacuumed more. I realized a while back: “I can either have a clean house, or I can have creative kids.” I know which one I will pick every time; I will pick the creative kids.

Shelby: Welcome to FamilyLife Today, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I’m Shelby Abbott, and your hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson. You can find us at FamilyLifeToday.com.

Dave:This is FamilyLife Today.

Ann: I like this quote: “Mothers shape love, and macaroni, and sleeplessness, and soap into young men and women over the course of many years; is there a greater art or a more powerful, patient creativity than that?” That quote’s by Brian Doyle; but it’s also from the book called Create Anyway: The Joy of Pursuing Creativity in the Margins of Motherhood with Ashlee Gadd. Ashlee’s back with us today. Ashlee, you’ve written a beautiful book. Why did you include that quote by Brian Doyle?

Ashlee: I mean, that quote summarizes the whole book.

Dave: It really does!

Ashlee: You could just not even read the book: just read that quote three times, and let it sink into your bones, and you get the whole message.

Ann: Interpret it. In your words, when you first read it, what did it make you feel?

Ashlee: It made me feel validated in the sense that creativity takes on many forms. Mothers are creating all the time, and it’s good and holy work.

Ann: I like that—that it’s holy work—because it doesn’t feel like it in the midst of it, does it?—

Ashlee: No.

Ann: —when you’ve made your third grilled cheese, or the quesadilla, and somebody’s sick, or you’re just wiping noses and wiping bottoms—it does not feel holy in the least.

Ashlee: No.

Ann: And yet, it is!

Ashlee: And yet, it is.

Ann: It is.

Dave:We were talking yesterday, and this is what came to me: “If you’re saying you’re a mom—and you’ve got gifts, and you’ve got creativity, and you should create anyway—you should relish in those gifts, and you should do those things. We talked about you writing your book on the bathroom floor, as you’re being a mom, but also being creative.

Some pushback could be: “That sounds really selfish,”—that’s what hit me yesterday—and there could be some moms, going, “No, no, no, no. When you’re a mom, and you’ve got littles”—or whatever the season you’re in—”you need to be fully present in their lives; because these days are going to go quick, and you—

Ashlee: Yeah.

Dave:—“you just put the creating and the gifting a little bit on the shelf, not forever, but for a season. Because if you do both, you’re really being pretty selfish.” That’s my question—I’m not saying it is or not—I’m just thinking, “There’s some people, maybe even some moms, thinking that, ‘I don’t agree. I think it sounds selfish.’” Do you agree or disagree?

Ashlee: I’m prepared to go to the debate stage for this one.

Dave: Let’s do it; let’s do it!

Ann: Yes!

Ashlee: Here’s my unofficial rebuttal to that argument: “I think it would be such a shame for our children to not be able to witness a flourishing mother.”

This is a script I’ve had to flip in my own mind, over and over again, to be honest. It’s not like I went through this period, where I just kind of figured this out, and I gave myself permission to create; and I never struggled with this again. I’ve been a mom for

12 years; and there are still times where that feeling crops up: of guilt, or shame, or “Am I being selfish to pursue this thing?”

But where I’ve really come to land—most of the time, even though sometimes I still need a pep talk for this—is that I want my children to see me flourishing in the creative gifts that God has given me. When I make time to pursue those things, when I make time to write, I am a better mom. And when I make time to pursue the creative talents that God has infused uniquely inside of me, that fullness spills out onto my family—I have more love to offer; I have more of myself to give—when I, myself, am filled up. I mean, it’s the total cliche—airplane—you got to put your oxygen mask on first before you can serve others. And for me, pursuing my creative gifts in this world is a form of putting my oxygen mask on: it’s what fills me up; it’s what draws me close to my Creator.

When I’m actually making the time and the space to do that, it’s not taking something away from my family; it’s actually giving something back to them. And so I just would love to encourage women to try to flip that script around—as uncomfortable as it may be—and it is uncomfortable. But I can tell you right now: my entire family—my children, my husband; everyone who lives in my house with me—would agree that—when I am writing, when I’m doing my specific creative thing in the world—I am a better mom; I’m a better wife; I’m a better friend; I have more love to give.

Dave:That’s good news.

Ann: It is good news.

Dave:That’s a really, really good answer. I was thinking, “Do you feel guilty?” You used that word a minute ago—guilt and shame—is that something you feel?

Ann: Oh, I would have totally feel guilty; it feels self-centered. I’m like [begrudgingly], “Oh, I have to put everyone’s needs in front of mine.” And then, you become the martyr; then you become resentful, bitter; then, you’re like, “Why does my husband get to do everything he wants to do, and I get to do nothing of my dreams?” And so you’re saying, by doing that,—

Dave:Welcome to our marriage and family for about 18 years.

Ashlee: I’m learning so much about you, though.

Dave: Well, Ashlee, as you were just saying, that last thing, I thought—I don’t know if this is true in every family; but in our family, because you are so committed to being a mom—“Guess what?”—I’m playing in a basketball league. Like what you just said: “Doing things that you love is better for your family,”—I’m doing things I love. She’d bring the kids and watch Dad play softball. It’s like, “Wait a minute; why am I doing this?”—not thinking a thing about it. “It’s okay for a dad to be both, but not for you?” You didn’t do any of this stuff.

Ann: You know what? It would’ve been amazing for you to say, “I’m doing this thing, and it is filling me up.” And I could say, “Yes, Dave needs that; it fills him up. He’s walking with Jesus, but there’s something about play that fills him up.”

If you would’ve said, “Honey, you need to do one of those things,”—you did do that, actually; you said, “What fills you up, right now, is going to work out,”—and so then, I started teaching at a club of workout classes. And man, I came back home—I mean, I had worked really hard—I was only gone for an hour and a half, and I felt full. I wasn’t as resentful of Dave’s wonderful life.

One of the things that you said is that you want your kids to see you do that. Why do you want them to see you?

Ashlee: I think part of my desire for my kids to see me—and specifically, my boys; although I feel this same desire for my daughter, because I want my daughter to grow up to know that she can be a mom and be an artist all at the same time; I want her to know what is possible for her—but with my boys, I look at them, and I think, “I want you to know what it’s like to come alongside your future spouse when you get married and, hopefully, you have children. I want you to know what it’s like to make this part of your family rhythm and part of just kind of the ambiance in your home.”

We have a very creative house; so it’s funny, because I’m kind of a clean freak. My favorite story to tell about this is that we have a little cart of art supplies next to the dining room table. My dining room table, seven days a week, is covered in the kids’ art stuff. There’s always a kid sitting at that table, making art. And I realized a while back: “I can either have a clean house, or I can have creative kids.” I know which one I will pick every time; I will pick the creative kids.

Ann: I wouldn’t! I’m just teasing, but there is a part of me that drives me crazy.

Ashlee: I know.

Ann: But I would have to figure out; I’d have to talk to myself, say, “No! This is more important. And there will be a day than it will be very clean.”

Ashlee: Yes; yes, I have to talk myself down lots of times, too; but it’s just so important for me to cultivate that spirit of creativity in our home, and for my kids to watch me be a part of that—not: “Okay, you guys are creative, so you go make art,”—but also, “Mom is also creative; this is a part of who I am. This is a part of what it means to be human: is to be creative.” I just think there’s no better way to model that for my kids than to let them watch me do it.

Dave:Yeah; and you’re also making their life, at this season, a priority. It’s going to be messy right now; it’ll be different later, maybe—

Ashlee: It sure is; it sure is.

Dave:—maybe not.

I don’t know the last time I’ve shared this, if ever; but I’ll never forget being at Promise Keepers. Do you even know what that is, Ashlee?

Ashlee: Yes.

Dave:It was around for many years—but I heard Joe Stowell speak—Joe was a pastor, and he was the president of Moody Bible in Chicago when he told this story. I’ll never forget this story. And he said, “Hey, when I was pastoring in Detroit, I had a house down in Highland Park.” And he goes, “I was consumed with having a perfect front yard; it was something I really cared about.” And he goes, “I didn’t hire a lawn company; I did it.” And he goes, “It was the best yard in the neighborhood. I watered it,”—and the whole thing, right?

And he said, “My boys—they’re teenagers—and they wanted a basketball hoop. So we put it up.” And he goes, “Almost every day they’d ask me to play hoops. And I’m like, ‘Yeah, let me work on the yard first; and then, we’ll play hoops.’” And he goes, “We really didn’t play hoops much; I was working on the yard.” And he said, “Let me tell you: it was perfect. And then, one day, a 17-year-old boy in my congregation was killed; and I did his funeral.” He goes, “I’m driving home from that funeral, and I pull onto my street. I look at my house and my yard, and I thought, ‘Yep, it’s the best yard on the street. Who cares?!’”

He goes, “I’m not saying yards don’t matter”; but he’s like, “Oh, my goodness.” He goes, “I, literally, walked in the house—went upstairs to my teenage boy’s bedroom, where he is working on homework—and said, ‘Hey dude, let’s shoot some hoops.’ And he goes, ‘Dad, I’m really busy right now; maybe later.’” And I’ll never forget: Joe said, as he walked down the hall, he said, “I said to myself, ‘I missed it; I missed it. There’s this window, and the yard was more important.’” He goes, “Don’t miss that.”

So when I heard you tell your story—

Ashlee: Do you see me crying right now?

Dave: Yeah; I mean, that’s—

Ashlee: I’ve got tears welling up in my eyes. That’s such a profound moment, and that’s such a profound realization. And as a mom of two boys—who are obsessed with basketball, and a husband who loves to shoot hoops with them—they play basketball every day at our house. And so I just can visualize that so closely.

Dave:Well, I mean a kitchen or a dining room table with sharpies and papers all over, it means you’re not missing it. Some of us, [who] would say, “Let’s clean all this up.” And again—I’m not saying clean doesn’t matter; it does matter—but this is the season you’re in; and you’re saying, “Create anyway, even in the mess: cookies and crumbs.”

Ashlee: I have to remind myself so often: “At the end of my life, I’m not going to be sitting on my death bed, wishing I would have vacuumed more.” I have to, literally, tell myself that once a week; because I love to vacuum, and I do love a clean house. And so it’s all about that long-term perspective.

Ann: I remember—I think it was our third son was getting ready to go to college—so we would be empty nesters after that. I pulled out an old, old journal; and in this journal, they were all so little. I remember writing in it: “I don’t have a life.” I used to say that over and over: “I don’t have a life.” It felt like all the things that I wanted to do were taken away. And then, that night, I wrote another entry into that journal; because it’s funny—as I was watching Dave and the boys, they’re in the family room laughing, doing something, messing around, playing something—and I remember thinking, “I didn’t think I had a life. [Recognizing now] That, besides Jesus, that is my life! It brings me more joy than I can even comprehend.”

It reminds me of this chapter that you wrote on play: “Remember to Play.” Why that? Why is that so important?

Ashlee: Yeah; Julia Cameron really convicted me with this idea of play. She wrote a book called The Artist’s Way. I don’t know if anybody’s read it; but she talks, in that book, about the importance of going on artist dates, and how important it is to cultivate your life as an artist—not just in the output—but also, in the input.

I was really challenged by that, because I tend to have a real work-hard mentality. This is my toxic trait—I am a workaholic, for better and for worse; and I love to work—I love to work hard at everything I do. Play is not something that comes naturally to me; it’s something I actually have to kind of work at. And so once I started really exploring this idea of incorporating play into my art, I realized how freeing it was to take some of the work-ness out of my creative process and infuse more play into it.

And so a tangible quick story I could tell about that would be: I went to a photography workshop a number of years ago; and at the time, I was feeling just really burned out with my photography practice. I felt like I was shooting the same types of images over and over again. Every session I did looked exactly the same; I didn’t have a lot of joy in it anymore. I didn’t have a lot of delight in it anymore.

And this photographer was coaching us through this idea of doing portfolio sessions. Portfolio sessions are where no money is exchanged—you go out and photograph the thing that you want to photograph—you just go out; no rules. You give yourself the freedom to play, and to experiment, and just really embrace where the energy is in your creative practice. And that idea was so foreign to me, because my photography was very wrapped up in work—it was part of my job; it was part of my income—it was very uniform in that way.

When I received that permission to go out and do a portfolio session, I will never forget, this sweet family let me come into their house. I got to photograph them in a completely different way. [This] was really different from the sessions I had been doing, which were mostly outdoors and very posed; and everyone wore very pretty outfits. It was just all very Christmas-card vibes; that was kind of my old photography.

And when I did this portfolio session, I spent a half a day with this family in their home, photographing them making cookies, and jumping on the bed, and just being themselves. I came home from that session just so on-fire for photography again. It’s like I had completely forgotten how much I actually love to photograph families. I needed that permission to play in the session—to get down on the floor, and just be kind of weird—and ask them to do things that I didn’t normally do. And that was a transforming moment in my personal photography practice; because to this day, that is still how I photograph families. I photograph families in the home: we jump out of the bed; and we make cookies; and we just get kind of weird. It was the play that unlocked that for me.

Ann: It’s interesting: when you walk in our house, we’ve got some portraits; and actually, it was a friend, who was a photographer, who had a free photo shoot with the most creative photo-shoot idea.

At the end of every single day that our kids were in school—the last day of the year, we would do a Slip ‘N Slide—and we would have shaving cream on the trampoline.

Ashlee: Oh, I love it.

Ann: And we’d have shaving cream on the Slip ‘N Slide, and so that was our idea.

We ended up—those were all the pictures we love the most—the shaving cream. They don’t look attractive in terms of what we’re wearing—the shaving cream in our hair; we all did it—but the joy on their faces: it’s something that you don’t capture in just a regular photo posts/shoot.

Let me ask you: “How important is that for you to bring play and joy into your house, as a mom?”—not just your work and your artistry, but as a mom?

Ashlee: Yeah; I think children are so good at play, inherently; they don’t even need a lot of encouragement from me. And I would say that’s also something that’s really inspired me, as a mom and as a creative, is watching my children engage in their own imaginations—and watching them engage in a sense of wonder—and watching their inherent tendencies toward that has made me assess how I can infuse more of that into my creative practice, as well.

Ann: Yeah, that’s good.

Dave:What is the chapter, “Throwing Glitter”? What’s that? Is it the same thing or totally different?

Ashlee: I mean, I guess there’s an element of play involved in chucking glitter at other people. But throwing glitter—that’s another little tiny nod to Julia Cameron, who—she talks about this idea of just the role that other people can play in our creative process. She likens people who criticize a lot to being a lint-picker. “Have you ever been getting ready to go somewhere, and you ask someone how you look; and the first thing they do is lean over and just start picking lint off your outfit?” That’s a person, who just criticizes—it’s a person, who’s negative; a person, who doesn’t believe in you; a person, who doesn’t want good for you—so throwing glitter is sort of the antidote to that: it’s cheering; it’s championing; it’s really being an encourager for other people, who are running the same race as us.

Ann: I loved you talking about your mother-in-law.

Ashlee: Yes, my mother-in-law—she wraps everything in glitter wrapping paper—everything!

Ann: Your kids love it!

.

Ashlee: My kids love it. I will be frequently—Christmas is in December—and it’s not uncommon for me to find glitter in my house in July. So when I talk about my love of vacuuming—you know what started it—it was the glitter all over my house. But she, literally/literally, leaves a trail of glitter after she’s been through our house. I started thinking of that as a metaphor for how I want to be with other women, who are creating beautiful things in this world. I don’t want to fall into the comparison trap; I don’t want to be a lint-picker, criticizing other women. I just want to be throwing glitter on them as often as possible. I want to be cheering for them until my voice is hoarse.

Having been on the receiving end of that kind of support, in my life, I just know how life-changing it can be, especially when you get to those places, where you’re stuck and you kind of want to give up. I mean, I’ve wanted to quit writing probably 500 times in the last year; and so having that support system around you, it can just breathe so much life into you. I want to be a person who breathes that same kind of life into other people.

Dave:Here’s a question I’d love to have both of you [contribute]: talk to the husband. I’m that guy, who’s listening to this, and thinking, “How do I encourage my wife? How do I inspire her to create anyway?—to feel the freedom to—I don’t think I’ve done a good job of that, so how would I step into that?” Because I could have been—or any husband could have been—sort of stifling that: “Hey, you can’t get too wild over here. We got three little kids,” or “…four.” But instead, be like, “What are your dreams? What do you want to do?” “How can I…” What would you say to the guy? Because I’m guessing your husband does that.

Ashlee: My husband does that a million times over. I am very, very blessed to be married to someone, who pours into me day, in and day out. I would not hesitate to say every single thing I’ve ever done—running “Coffee + Crumbs,” writing Create Anyway—every creative thing I’ve ever done, I’ve been able to do, is because of his support. It has come out of being on the receiving end of that encouragement.

I guess what I would say to the husbands is—two things are kind of coming to the forefront of my mind—

The first one would be: “Just expressing a genuine desire in what she’s doing.” And so, for me, in my marriage, what that looks like is my husband reads every single thing I write. I have a lot of friends, who are writers, whose spouses don’t read anything that they write. I think, bare minimum, that’s such an easy place to start. Maybe the wife is not a writer—maybe she’s a painter; maybe she’s a photographer, or a gardener, or a baker—or whatever the thing is. But just expressing a genuine desire in seeing her, and seeing her art; I think that’s a really good, easy way to start.

And then, the second would be really practical and really logistical: “Offering her the time and the space to actually go do those things.” I don’t know what kind of arrangements can be made. Depending on your life and your circumstances, that would look very different from family to family—depending on the ages of your kids, and your jobs, and whatever else—but even if it’s just an hour on a Saturday, or another small increment of time, I think blessing her with the gift of time and space is one of the best gifts you can give your wife.

Dave:Yeah, I was thinking I didn’t do a good job of that for decades in time and space and even money. I was just thinking, “A couple of times, Ann and I were doing a marriage message; and she would have this idea of a visual. She wanted two plants—that she could chop one—and it’s a long story. And what was my reaction? ‘What?! You want me to go to Home Depot and get, not just two plants,’—because we got to give this message three times—’so I got to get six plants/eight plants?’ ‘Yeah,’ ’I mean, what’s it going to cost?—30 bucks—whatever; and get these clippers— whatever.’”

And so I did it; but I can’t imagine how you felt because, the whole time, I was like, “Why did we do it?” And then, we did the first service; I’m like, “That was genius.” And it’s gone around the world: it’s this video that we did years ago.

And then, a few years later: “Hey, I want to use a tandem bike,” “The tandem bike we got hanging in the garage; that old thing?” “Yeah; can we take it to church?” “What?! No!”—that was my response; rather than—“She’s got a gift; she’s a visual teacher.” These are iconic metaphors and visuals—nobody’s ever going to forget the tandem bike that’s in our Vertical Marriage® small group series—everywhere we go, people are like, “Oh, that tandem bike was so good!” I’m like, “I’m the guy [who] almost stopped it rather than going, ‘Way to go, honey! How can I help you be who God created you to be?’”

I would just say to the guys: if you’re like me—if it’s money that’s holding you back, or time, or space—don’t be Dave; be better than me! Go, “Man! God’s made my wife unique, and He’s created something in her that I don’t have. I don’t even understand it, but it’s beautiful. I’m going to bring wind to that rather than be the one pulling her down.”

Ann: That’s really sweet; and you’re super supportive, now, with all those things

Dave:I’ve learned: her teaching is a lot better than mine.

Ann: And I’ll add another one to that. I think it’d be awesome for a husband to ask his wife this—but maybe, you’re single; maybe, you’re a single mom; maybe, you’re raising your kids by yourself; or you’re just even a woman [who] has these longings; but you don’t have a husband [who] will maybe ask you those things—so here’s one of the things I would like to hear from—a friend, from a mom, from a sibling; but especially, from a husband, like on a date night, if Dave said, “Tell me the longings of your heart.” It could be spiritually; it could be artistically; it could be just longings—like, “Share your longings.”

First of all, I’d probably—

Dave: —or “…your dreams.”

Ann: Yeah; “…longings and dreams.” I would cry; and I would want to think about it: “What are my longings?”

And then, that next thing, Dave, that you said: “How can I support you in that?” And even if a friend said that to me. As a friend, it could open up the conversation; I could say to my friend, “Share with me the longings of your heart,”—especially if you’re a young mom—you feel like nobody hears those things anymore; they feel forgotten. But to say that with a friend, and then you could even say, “How could we support each other? What could that look like?”—I think this could be your book—

Dave: “Pick it up!”

Ann: —Create Anyway is a good resource to go through some of those questions, and those longings, and those dreams; and to spur that flame of creativity. Again, thanks.

Ashlee: Yeah.

Ann: So if something on today’s episode clicked with you, we just want you to know you are not alone; because every single marriage has its share of not just highs but lows, too.

Dave:And the question is: “Where do you go for help?” That was always our question. We are so thankful that you listened today, and we want to share one of our favorite resources: it’s a free guide, filled with helpful marriage wisdom, from real life couples, who’ve been right where you are.

Ann: And you can grab your copy today at FamilyLife.com/MarriageHelp. Again, go to FamilyLife.com/MarriageHelp for your free guide that’s full of marriage tips.

Shelby: Creativity is such an important part of God’s character, and He’s passed that on to us as His image bearers. I love that we’ve been highlighting the importance of creativity over the past two days. I hope it has given you hope as you think about all the ways God has called you to be creative, regardless of your life stage.

I’m Shelby Abbott; and you’ve been listening to Dave and Ann Wilson, with Ashlee Gadd, on FamilyLife Today. Ashlee has written a book called Create Anyway: The Joy of Pursuing Creativity in the Margins of Motherhood. You can get your copy of Ashlee’s book, right now, by going online to FamilyLifeToday.com; or look for a link in the show notes. Or you could feel free to give us a call at 800-358-6329 to request your copy of Ashlee’s book, Create Anyway. Again, that number is 800-F as in family, L as in life, and then the word, TODAY.

And speaking of creativity, we’re right in the middle of October. That means that many people—probably in your neighborhood; and maybe, even you—are going to be carving pumpkins very, very soon. Well, we wanted to step in on that and help you out by, not only giving you creative ideas on how to carve a pumpkin this year, but also, how to share the gospel with your kids as you’re carving your pumpkin. You can get your free download of “Gospel in a Pumpkin” by FamilyLife. It includes activities, pumpkin face stencil sheets, and a guided script to help your kids learn what matters most while you carve your pumpkins this year. You can find this free resource at FamilyLife.com/Pumpkin, or you can look for it in the show notes. Again, the address is FamilyLife.com/Pumpkin. Head over there to get your free download of “Gospel in a Pumpkin.”

Now, coming up tomorrow, musician and author, Andrew Peterson is going to be here, with Dave and Ann Wilson, to talk about fueling kids’ imagination and creativity to open doors for the kingdom of God. That’s tomorrow; we hope you’ll join us. On behalf of Dave and Ann Wilson, I’m Shelby Abbott. We’ll see you back next time for another edition of FamilyLife Today.

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