Overcoming Insecurity with our Bodies: Rachael Gilbert

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Overcoming Insecurity with Our Bodies

Guest:Rachael Gilbert

From the series:Image Restored (Day 2 of 2)

Air date:November 12, 2024

Shelby: Hey, Shelby Abbott here. Are you tired of the tension and the division that exists in things like your family gatherings; and your friend groups; and certainly, on social media? I know I am. Well, Psalm 1:33 tells us that it’s good for believers to live in unity with one another; but in today’s kind of easily-angered and often-offended world, that just feels impossible; doesn’t it? Well, that’s why I’m excited to invite you to join us, here at FamilyLife, for a five-week video series from our friend—author and comedian—Amberly Neese. It’s called “Moving Toward Each Other in the Middle of a Divisive World.” You could sign up, right now, by clicking on the link in the show notes or heading over to FamilyLife.com/FindingCommonGround.

Alright, let’s get into the program.

Rachael: It was after—I think I’d had baby number two or three at this point—and I was doing all the things I needed to do to get that weight off: going to early-morning bootcamps and all the stuff. And for that time, it just was not coming off as easy as it did in the first couple of pregnancies. And he said, “Rachael, stop comparing yourself to other women, including your younger self.”

Shelby: Welcome to FamilyLife Today, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I’m Shelby Abbott, and your hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson. You can find us at FamilyLifeToday.com.

Dave: This is FamilyLife—

Ann: —Today.

Ann: What is one thing that you did not expect in our marriage?

Dave:One thing?

Ann: Yeah.

Dave:There’s probably a hundred things. Based on what we’re going to talk about today, I underestimated your belief about your body and how that would affect our marriage.

Ann: —my insecurities.

Dave:Yeah, I mean, we’re going to talk about body image today with Rachael Gilbert; she’s back. Rachael, welcome back to FamilyLife. You’ve written a whole book about this; and yesterday, we had this fascinating study. I felt like I was just a dude over here listening to two women talk about this—

Ann: —the burden that we carry?

Dave:Yes; it’s an identity.

Ann: Yeah!

Dave:Honestly, I knew you had a little bit of that when we dated and were engaged; but then, when we got married—and you’ll remember this—when you would say you didn’t like your body, or you didn’t think you looked good, I initially just poo-pooed it, like, “You got to be kidding me!” So I never—yesterday, Rachael, you were talking about a man listening and feeling before you heal—I didn’t feel any of that. Is that pretty common for guys, you think?—husbands?

Rachael: Oh, for sure; yeah.

Dave:Well, I responded terribly; because honestly, what you said—your husband, Matthew, right?—what he did is sort of got angry; I did the same thing. I wasn’t mad at Ann; I was shocked that she kept saying it. It wasn’t every day, but it would come up again and again. She’d put on something—we’d be going out—I’d be like, “Oh my goodness, she is gorgeous!” And she’d be like, “Yeah, I gained weight; I don’t look…” Instead of understanding, like, “Wow, she really is struggling with that,” I was just like, “Come on! You know how good you look.” She didn’t; it took me years to understand: “She does not believe what I believe about her body.” That’s a real thing, and I underestimated that.

And I’m guessing that’s pretty common in marriage—it may go the other way for the guy—but I bet a lot of it’s the woman feels that; she’s got the little “t”/big “T” traumas in her past. I think we, husbands, need to go, “This is real.” And I could have been a gift from God to you, to say, “Tell me more. Why do you feel that way?” instead of just saying, “Come on!” Because my anger toward her—

Ann: —shut me down.

Dave:—closed you down.

Ann: Oh, yeah. We’re talking about Rachael’s book, Image Restored. As we talked about yesterday, it’s more than a book; it’s an interactive book.

And Rachael, we haven’t even talked about your kids. You’ve been married how many years?

Rachael: Nineteen, this last May.

Ann: Okay, and you have two daughters and a son. How old are they?

Rachael: They are 13, 15, and 17. So our girls are the oldest, and our son is the youngest.

Ann: And you’re a podcaster; you are a therapist; you’re an author. You teased us a little bit with the story of your husband yesterday, of saying that same thing of, he got mad. How did it first come out?—this conversation that you felt like he was mad at you about your insecurities with your body image.

Rachael: I did mention yesterday that this was something he did not know—much like you, Dave—before we got married.

Dave:Do you guys hide it from us? What’s going on?

Rachael: I don’t know.

Dave:I don’t think you do hide it; I think we don’t see it.

Ann: I think it’s a shame thing that we carry; it’s embarrassing.

Rachael: And I do want to be clear—we mentioned this yesterday—this can be a male thing, too. Your question, though, was: “How’d this come up for us?” We got married, and it started to really come up when I got pregnant in our first year of marriage. The body image thing—woo—it really rises. If you have any struggles in this area, especially an eating disorder—when you get pregnant—it rose majorly to the top for me. We were still in college; I was pregnant in college.

Ann: When you say, “it rose to the top,” what’s that look like? What do you mean?

Rachael: It means I couldn’t hide it anymore. This was just a me-thing; that’s the other thing about body image. I don’t know about you, Ann—but I know for myself and a lot of the women I’ve counseled—it feels safer to keep it internalized, because there were some of my behaviors I wanted to defend. I didn’t want somebody knowing how little I was eating; they might get concerned about me and make me eat more, and I might gain weight. That’s the toxic pattern of a disordered eating person: there are all these things that they’re thinking through—and not always consciously; they are very subconscious—but it’s like a protective mechanism.

Ann: And you can even go get into the habit—for me was—I’m gauging how much I’m eating and how much I’ll have to work out as a result of what I’m eating. Those are just quiet things, that a lot of times, you never communicate.

Rachael: —because: “If I did, what would be people’s response?” Usually—it’s not like, “Oh, okay; that sounds great. Let’s just move on with our day,” like nothing happened—I’d probably either get confronted or get a comment what my husband would do that would make me mad. And then, I’m like, “That just reaffirmed to me this needs to be an internal struggle that nobody else needs to be a part of, because I don’t want help with it.” It’s like one of those things where you’re not even ready for the stages of change. You’re not even to the stage of change, where you’re going, “This is a problem. It’s taking over my life, and my thoughts, my body, our finances,”—all the things—and where you actually go, “I want change.”

And so for us, in marriage, was I got pregnant right away. I just started gaining weight right away, too; because to go from barely eating anything to now eating for two. I really took that on as a serious job, that: “There’s a second person I needed to eat for.” I gained about 60 pounds in that first pregnancy. Going to the doctor, gaining weight; and the doctor was shaming me, too: “What are you eating over there?” That was my first doctor. I have a really cool story with my second doctor, who did the opposite of that. But I can no longer hide it, when I’m coming home from these doctor’s appointments, bawling. And my husband’s like, “Why are we crying? You’re pregnant.” It was a weird season for us.

Ann: I’m going, “Wait; wait; what did you say?” Here, you come home; you’re crying because you had gained more weight?

Dave:—because of what the doctor said.

Rachael: Yeah; then I did start to tell him: “I’m so fat; you’re going to leave me.” All my fears started to come up. And here’s the cool thing my husband did do very well in that season—I know I kind of poke at him for not always responding with the best things—he continued to tell me how beautiful I was, how much he loved me, how he wasn’t going anywhere, and even hugging me/holding me. He continued that, all the way to the end of the pregnancy, where I outweighed him by the end of our pregnancy. And in my head, I thought, “This guy, for sure, is leaving me. There’s no way he’s sticking around.” That’s just how dark a place I was in that season.

Ann: Even that thought: “He’s not going to stay with me”; did that come from somewhere?

Rachael: It did, yeah.

Ann: Where’d that come from?

Rachael: I’ll get there—let me just say one last thing—the thing he did right, though, was he stuck with me. He continued to tell me those things, even though they made me angry when he’d say, “You’re so beautiful”; I would be like, “You’re lying! How could you think I’m beautiful when I weigh this much?” He showed me, with his actions—even when I wouldn’t receive his words—his actions would stick with me; that began healing for me.

So then,—

Ann: That’s sweet.

Rachael: Yeah; so “Where did this come from?” When I was in high school, I had a relative, who told me—whenever I get married, she said—“If you don’t want your husband to look at other women, or even to leave you/have an affair on you, you need to make sure you keep your weight off. And if you do that—you just keep your weight under control—you’ll be great.” So again,—

Ann: So it’s all on you.

Rachael: Yeah!

Ann: And you’re heavy.

Rachael: Yeah.

Dave: What a lie!

Rachael: I know, right? I know! Yeah, I know: very much a lie.

Ann: She got that from somewhere, too.

Rachael: Exactly! She was doing her due diligence to pass along whatever she learned.

And now, is this something that I told my husband?—no! I never sat him down, and said, “Now, just so you know, I’ve been made aware that, as long as I keep my weight off, we’ll be good”; we never had that conversation. And I even didn’t register that conversation [with relative], probably even, for years after that; but that’s what was coming up for me: “When I’m sitting here, my weight is just”—it felt like to me—“spiraling,”—felt out of control; and then, my brain is automatically associating—”and there goes my marriage.”

Wow! That was one year in—that was short-lived—that’s where I was.

Dave:Is that what was behind—you told us a little bit about the “Weekend of Forget”—is that what was maybe going on? Tell our listeners that story.

Rachael: Oh, my goodness; yes. We lovingly call our Weekend to Remember® with FamilyLife, which has been about 15 years ago, our “Weekend to Forget.” Now, we will never forget it; because both of us got a lot of freedom in that weekend. Somebody had gifted us that, which is such a great gift to give newlyweds; and we even chose Florida. We’re like, “Oh, it’s going to be so pretty and near a beach.” It was not on our radars that we even had troubles right in that moment. We come to the first session; it was great. And then, we go to lunch; and because we’re in beautiful, sunny Florida, we go sit by the pool. I noticed my husband checking out other ladies, walking by, in their bikinis. And for whatever reason, it was coming up—I guess it was the Lord knew—we got into a big fight that weekend, and went back to the session; sat in different locations.

But here’s the cool thing: on that weekend, both of us really got set free, big time. I say, “set free”—we got the very beginnings of our journey to freedom in the things that we both struggled with—because I like to remind people, especially with body image: “This is a journey.” I’m aging—I just turned 40—so every season, I feel like, “Okay, here comes a new thing we’re dealing with. Just when I thought, ‘I am okay’; but here, we’re going to do something else.”

And so for me, that—like I mentioned, the whole belief I’d brought in—that: “Oh, my goodness; if that’s my fault—him checking out these ladies—obviously, I don’t look good enough.” My body-image stuff really surfaced. And then, for him, his lust in things surfaced, too. We both got to really, for the first time probably in our marriage, actually start to deal with it; and we were at a Weekend to Remember.

Dave:So coach up husbands—we’ve talked about it a little bit—but what’s the best thing we can do? And I’m not saying we don’t struggle with it—but when we identify: “This is a real struggle for my wife,”—what do we do? How do we walk beside her? How do we help her understand who she is in Christ?—a new identity that’s not tied to how she thinks about her body. And again, this goes both ways; but I’m just thinking, as husbands, I think we’re clueless, like, “Somebody tell me; help me. I’m not sure how to help my wife.”

Rachael: Yeah; well, we’ve already started talking about—part of that is hearing her and not judging—we have to be very careful about judging emotions. Now, we don’t need to make decisions, based on emotions. If you can let those emotions come up—and we start this as individuals; but then, as couples, as well—when emotions are there, not judging them, not going: “Ah, that’s wrong,” or “Oh, how could you feel that way?” Because we do this to ourselves, as well.

Case in point: if you have ever brought up to somebody, “I feel fat,”—that phrase, nine times out of ten—most people respond with: “Oh, you’re not fat,” “You shouldn’t feel fat.” And so they, basically, tell us how we should feel. They’re telling me: “What you’re feeling is wrong,”—and so, then, what do I do?—“Oh, you’re right”; I shove that “I feel fat,” back down. And is that true that I don’t need to sit around, feeling fat, and live in that?—absolutely. But we will until we let it come up—name it; tame it—and then, go, “Okay, I have named you; you can be on your way. I’m not going to sit in this as my truth.”

And so that’s the thing about emotions is—they just get so stuffed; that then, it’s just like this brewing, festering thing under there that, then, we’re afraid to even take the lid off and let a few come out—because then, it’s scary to some people, especially if they’ve never been taught how to handle their emotions. And so, when we can do that—sit with ourselves; first and foremost with the Lord, as you mentioned; and then with our spouse—and go, “This is what I’m feeling,”—okay, we’re both recognizing we’re not agreeing with this by letting me feel this—but we are just saying, “This is here.” Once we felt it, then we can start diving into the thoughts, and the negative core beliefs, and reframing the thought process around it. But we can’t bypass the emotion.

I know that’s hard, though, for husbands. I want to recognize that I get—I also don’t want husbands to feel shame that they’re not naturally able to do that—because “Who’s taught you how to do that?”—not many people!

Ann: I’m also thinking—let’s say either spouse; let’s say they’re significantly unhealthy—and so when the spouse says, “I feel really fat”; the other one could be thinking, “You’re not healthy.” Do you even say anything? What does that sound like?

Rachael: Yeah, that’s a great point. Again, I still say you still sit with the feeling—let them feel that—and then, go, “Okay, what would you like to do from here? How can I support you/your next steps? I’m not so much worried about feeling fat as I am your health. Let’s do this together.” I always tell married couples: “It’s great to approach health together.” That’s what my husband and I do. And even as a counselor, we own an integrated medical practice; and so all of my clients that I see, we do blood work on them. I want to see: “What all is going on with you? Where are your vitamin D levels, and your iron, and all these different things that do affect our bodies?”

Because I wrote a chapter on this in the book. I’m all for it—I believe the Lord is, too—us taking care of our bodies. And so a lot of times, though, we’re using this—the word, “fat,” here—stuff that is external is often just our body’s way of sending cues of what’s actually happening, internally. Now, just because somebody is a certain weight, doesn’t mean they’re, for sure, unhealthy or anything like that; but it is your body’s way of saying, “Hey, we’re not okay in here. Let’s take a closer look at what’s going on, internally,” and deal with some of those things as well.

Ann: I love what you said, Rachael, about your husband just loving you: “I love you,” “I really love you,”—even to hear—”I love you no matter what.” To me, that ministers deep down in my heart.

Dave:And I’ll just add: I’ve said that to Ann many times, and she doesn’t believe it. She does. But I mean, your book caused us to have a conflict; it’s all your fault, Rachael.

Rachael: I want to hear about this conflict.

Dave:Just as we were studying, and researching, and reading; and I’m like—I don’t know how you brought it up—I’m like—

Ann: I brought it up because I said you had said: “A lot of what we carry, about weight, comes from our moms, our grandmothers, our family members; and not as many men.” And I said, “Oh, mine is definitely my dad;”—and then, I said—”and you.”

Dave:And I was shocked; because I’m like, “All I do is compliment you, I feel like.” I don’t think I’ve ever—and I’m not your dad—

Ann: No, you have never—

Dave: —one time in forty-five years, said, ‘You could lose some weight,” or whatever. I’ve been very careful because I noticed that she would look in the mirror and not like what she saw. We talked about that yesterday. I didn’t know that, when we got married; but I was like, “Whoa, this is real.” And so I’ve been very careful, but tell her what you said!

Ann: Which one?—which part?

Dave:I said, “Well, you make comments about other people’s bodies.” I’m like, “Oh!”—meaning—“Hey, they’re overweight.” “Oh”; she’s like, “Oh.” So you notice overweight, and you think—so I never connected those dots.

Ann: Yes.

Dave: Wow!

Ann: I said, “I internally feel the pressure of that.” Is that typical?

Rachael: Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah; for sure.

Ann: So it’s not spoken, like, “You’re overweight”; but by judging other people’s weight. I’m thinking of moms, too, commenting to their daughters: “Did you see…”

Rachael: Yeah, exactly. It’s the hyperfocus on the body, right? And so it is; yeah, if you notice other people. That’s really even what we were talking about earlier, when we’re saying we get these messages from aunts and everything. Most of it was not directly spoken, it was just the mere fact that we equated: “Oh, people are looking at this. I should expect that, when I walk into the room, we’re preprogrammed just to recognize; ‘They’re looking at this.’” And the hard part is: “It is true.” We have eyes; the Lord chose to give us these physical bodies.

I try to be careful not to Christianese too much, like, “Hey, we just need to look at Jesus all the time.” I mean, that’s great/yay! I do believe we should look at Jesus all the time, but we do still live in these physical bodies; and yes, people do still notice them. We need these bodies to get us around and all the things. So I do believe that it matters to the Lord; He just doesn’t want it to be our hyperfocus.

Ann: Yes.

Dave:I wonder—you say a lot of women get their thoughts from their mom or an aunt. I wonder how much of it’s from dads. I’m even thinking of fathers of daughters: we may not say something to our daughter or our wife directly; but if we’re saying stuff about women or about bodies—or they’re noticing us look—it’s a strong message to women: “This is what matters to men.”

Rachael: Absolutely; for sure.

Ann: And has porn had a significant effect, on both men and women, body-image wise?

Rachael: Absolutely! Yeah, because we’re painted this picture, again: “This is what ideal is over here.” And very few people actually look like that in real life. And then it’s also, again, back to the just objectifying and making it all about: “This is what’s valued.” “Okay, this is where people hold value; and if I want to be valued, then this is what I need to do,” versus us going to the Lord and just getting our value from there.

I know you guys talk about this, even in what you do with Vertical Marriage. If my identity here isn’t good—and me believing that I don’t look the way I’m supposed to, the way he wanted me to; all those things—my husband can’t say enough of the most amazing things in the world to me to heal me in that area. We do need to let spouses off the hook in this way, both directions of we can support each other, but we can never complete each other in that way. It has to be from the Lord, first and foremost; and then, our spouse can come along, as a partner, and support us on that journey; and definitely, either help us or very much hurt us.

I’m sad to say I counsel a lot of women, who their spouses are—not only not supportive—they say the opposite: “You need to lose weight,” and “How come you’re so fat?”—all this stuff that’s so damaging—

Ann: —toxic.

Rachael: —so damaging.

Dave:“How have you gotten to that place”—and I’m asking both of you really—”that you’re free from all of that?”—because that’ll never be perfect; your husband will never say exactly—and I’m thinking, “Even as parents, how can we help our kids get to a place of identity, where they’re free of what the world or what the dominant messages are about body image?—where they can hear them, and go, ‘That’s a lie; I can walk in a room and feel powerful, because I’m not dominated by: “How do I look?” “What are they thinking about me?”’” How have you been able to get to a place of identity that’s free? I think “freedom” is the word.

Rachael: I personally believe that freedom is a journey. I feel like it becomes, though, quicker/more second nature to—like he said, something else will kind of bring me back around: whether it’s a social media post; or we’re out on the beach, and I’m going, “Oh, no; here we go again”; and you’re kind of feeling yourself start to go back to that place of bondage—but then, the Lord will go, “Oh, wait; remember. Bring those truths to remembrance and bring things…”

And you do start to get—I know, for me—I get to know myself and what types of things I can and can’t participate in; for example, I don’t love participating in conversations around the table, where women are talking about their latest diet that they’re doing to lose weight. For me, that’s very—

Ann: —triggering.

Rachael: —triggering. Yep; It makes me go, “I should go there, too.” It can really take me down a dark path.

Now, I still love to, like I said, take care of my body, and eat well, and exercise—I love doing all those things—but I know, for me, I can’t go there and do whatever the trendiest thing is. It will take me down a really dark—all the work I did to get out of that—I’ll really quickly go back. I’ve had to just be honest with myself, too, about: “Okay, I just can’t go there.” So that’s how I personally do walk in freedom—is knowing what some of my triggers are and being willing to not participate in them—and if I find myself going down that path, coming back around, and going, “No, wait; I know the truth.” And just renewing my mind daily as the Word tells us to do.

Ann: It’s easy to get triggered, because it keeps coming up; because our bodies just get older. It’s not that we get the perfect body, because we’ll never have that perfect body until we’re with Jesus.

Dave:I think, Rachael, you write about that a little bit in your book about comparing now to before; every person does that.

Ann: I love what—was it your husband?

Rachael: —my husband.

Ann: Share with us.

Rachael: I was just thinking about that: that brought me a lot of freedom. It was after—I think I’d had baby number two or three at this point—and I was doing all the things I needed to do to get that weight off: going to early-morning bootcamps and all the stuff. And for that time, it just was not coming off as easy as it did in the first couple of pregnancies.

I was wearing myself out. I remember it was even affecting our sex life, because I’m too tired to have sex; because I got to be up at four in the morning to get to bootcamp—which that’s funny, when you think through that; I am like, “I’m doing all this work to get this body; but now, I don’t have energy for sex,”—okay, so we’ll just leave that on the table, the thought process on that. But I remember I was so exhausted. I sat my husband down; I said, “I can’t keep doing this; I’m so tired.” And I basically told him what I was doing. He just listened, and he said, “Rachael, stop comparing yourself to other women, including your younger self; she’s another woman.” Because at that point, for me, I was comparing myself to pre-baby body—that was my goal—was a young self.

And that’s an area my husband has brought a lot of freedom to myself in; and I think, even in my teachings to others, because not only just the comparison of a younger version of ourself—or even an ideal version of ourself—and this idea of: “What it could be if only I would do all these things.” Him, being a chiropractor—he’s been in practice for a couple decades now—and he sees, with his eyes, aging bodies. It’s happening to all of us; you can’t fight it. Now, we like to age with grace—but [he] and I really like to normalize that—“We’re all aging; it’s part of life. It actually can be a beautiful thing if we’ll embrace it and do it well.” But him just reminding me of that—and so now, [he] and I: he’s 41; I’m 40—we kind of joke about, “Oh, there comes another new thing with our body”; and we’re going through it with this just lightheartedness versus a panic freak-out: “I need to do something crazy.” And so that’s where that came in—about the comparison, as you mentioned—about just that younger version of myself that I was trying to chase and can’t get back there.

Ann: I think that’s so good. And I’m still stuck on: “If you can name it, you can tame it,”— that conversation—to have those conversations with our spouse.

Dave:—and “If you can feel it, you can heal it.” You’ve got all kinds of good words.

Ann: Those are good. But even those conversations with your kids at the dinner table—or that one’s probably more of a bedtime with a daughter or a son, like, “Hey, I listened to this podcast today” or “…radio about body image,”—how would we, with our kids especially, how would you shape that question with a daughter or a son? “Have you ever”—what?—”struggled with that?” Or how would you get them to name it?

Rachael: I say it starts with the parent: “If you’re not able to name yours,—

Ann: Oh, that’s good.

Rachael: —“and if you’re not able to heal yours, you’re not going to be able to help your kid walk through it.”

It’s just us learning how to do something that’s like—if I wanted to teach my kid to ride a bike, but I don’t know how to ride one—”I’ve read great books about riding bikes, and this is what they say to do; ‘Why don’t you go do it?’” And they’re like, “Well, can you hop on and show me?” And you’re like, “Oh, well, no; that’s just for you to hop on, and I’m just here to video it.” I think that’s, sometimes, what we do with this topic.

I get so many messages from women, who are going, “I think my teen daughter needs to go through this,” and wants to throw their kid through it—which is great—but I always tell them, “Okay, it starts with you.” Even if we think we don’t have something, there’s always something there that we probably need to process through. So we got to do it, first, ourselves. And especially, with a delicate conversation like this, it starts—not by questioning—because sometimes, questioning can elicit defensiveness in people.

Ann: It can feel intimidating, like—

Rachael:: “Oh, I’m being grilled,” and “What’s really happening with you?”

Ann: Yes; I do that a lot. It’s not good.

Rachael: Well, we all do. We just got to catch ourselves when we do it. And so, for me, with our girls, I just have always started with sharing my own stories first.

Ann: That’s good.

Rachael: I’m like, “Hey, I was just thinking the other day, when I was your age, I was going through this…”; and I’ll tell them my story; what came up for me. And oftentimes, that organically invites them into a conversation to say whatever might be going on with them, too.

Dave:And I would say, “A real easy way to do it is pick up a copy of Rachael’s book, Image Restored, which you can get at FamilyLifeToday.com.” I’m not kidding, Ann; when you asked that, I thought, “Get the book! It’ll just start a conversation. You read it first; and then, maybe say to your son or daughter, “It’s a workbook, so we can do it together.” I always use a tool—

Ann: Yeah, that’s good.

Dave:—something in the middle, whether it’s a video—

Ann: I know. “People, I’m too intense; don’t do what I do: I just ask the questions.” You guys are way smarter than I am, way more wise. But I think this is a great tool.

Rachael: And hey, you know what, though? At least, you’re asking the questions—I’m serious—because that’s the other thing. I never want people to hear: “That if you don’t do it right, you’ve really messed things up now.” I’m like: “Well, hold on. You have the right heart behind it right now. Hopefully, we can use tools that ease us into it a bit nicer, a little more gracefully.” But I think that’s actually what keeps us, sometimes, from having hard conversations is: we think we’re going to mess things up if we don’t do it correctly. But if we go in, with the help of the Holy Spirit, and just say, “Lord, cover this conversation.” And when I get it wrong, I just come in, and I apologize—

Ann: That’s good.

Rachael: —and walk through it with them.

Ann: Thanks for your grace. That’s a good therapist, right there.

Dave: Yeah, very good.

Shelby: I love Rachael’s perspective: “Don’t feel like you have to do everything ‘correct’ in order to see God work in your life and in the lives of others.” This tool that she’s created is meant to help steer you in the right direction. As long as your heart is one of humility, and willingness to grow and learn, God’s going to guide you exactly where you need to go. I love that perspective—it’s really, really kind and caring of her—and also, it takes the pressure off in many ways.

I’m Shelby Abbott; you’ve been listening to Dave and Ann Wilson, with Rachael Gilbert, on FamilyLife Today. Rachael’s written a book called Image Restored: Tear Down Shame and Insecurity to Experience a Body Image Renovation. You can get your copy, right now, by going online to FamilyLifeToday.com, where you’ll find a link in the show notes that’ll lead directly to where you can find her book.

And while you’re at FamilyLifeToday.com, remember that we’re in a season leading up to Thanksgiving. I don’t know if you knew that; it’s coming up very soon. One of the things that I love doing with my family is purposefully practicing gratitude. Since my kids have been very young, my wife and I have been super intentional about purposely pointing out the things that we should be thankful for instead of just complaining all the time, which is our natural default. Well, we, here at FamilyLife, know that that can be the default in many families; and so we’ve created a resource called “The Gratitude Project.” You could download this for free at FamilyLifeToday.com. Really, it is inspired by 1 Thessalonians 5 to embrace gratitude as a spiritual practice. It has family-friendly activities, where you can enjoy three weeks of hands-on activities, a gratitude scavenger hunt, and just simple conversation starters for you and your kids. Again, you could get the link in the show notes at FamilyLifeToday.com.

Now, coming up tomorrow, speaker and professional baseball player, Chris Singleton, is going to be here with the Wilsons to talk about his mother’s death, racial violence, and seeking God amidst such a terrible loss. Tune in tomorrow; we hope you’ll join us. On behalf of Dave and Ann Wilson, I’m Shelby Abbott. We’ll see you back next time for another edition of FamilyLife Today.

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