Real Bad Guys: Jimmy & Kelly Needham

Jimmy: I don't want my children to grow up with an impression of, “I'm basically good. Jesus is really more for those folks. I have got to wait until my life falls apart for the cross to make sense to me.”

Ann: Yes.

Jimmy: If that's how you're thinking about Christianity, you're actually missing it.

Shelby: Welcome to FamilyLife Today, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I'm Shelby Abbott, and your hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson. You can find us at FamilyLifeToday.com.

Ann: This is FamilyLife Today!

Dave: So, I'm looking at a children's book.

Ann: I love children's books—

Dave: —I know you do. You're the best!

Ann: —because we read all the time as our kids were growing up.

Dave: Well, I'm going to read the first page.

Ann: Oh, you are? [Laughter]

Dave: Well, I'm not going to do a voice or anything—

Ann: —okay.

Dave: —but I'm going to—I mean, I remember when I got the PDF, and I loved it from the start! It says, “I sure hope you're wearing a belt, because you're about to get the pants scared right off you! Get ready, because I've got a story about some real bad guys.” [Laughter]

I know I didn't do a good job reading it. 

Jimmy: Sucked us right in!

Ann: It did!

Jimmy: Yes, that’s right.

Dave: Well, we've got the author right here—Jimmy Needham, sitting there with his wife Kelly. And have you ever written a children's book before?

Jimmy: This is my first kids’ book to write, yes.

Dave: Why? Why?

Kelly: But can I out you, though, that you have sketched out kids’ books before?

Jimmy: I have.

Ann: Oh.

Kelly: It has been an interest of yours since the day I knew you.

Ann: Well, you have 5 kids.

Jimmy: I'm eleven years old in my insides. [Laughter] So, yes, that's right.

Ann: Which is interesting, Jimmy, because you're a seminary student; you're a pastor; you're a recording artist.

Jimmy: Yes.

Ann: You kind of have your hands on a lot of different things.

Jimmy: Yes.

Ann: But why a children's book?

Jimmy: I love deep theology. I love—like you said, I'm in seminary; I'm doing all that; I love that. But I'm also ridiculous. [Laughter]

Ann: Is this true? Kelly's [nodding] her head.

Kelly: 100%, this is true.

Dave: What do you mean, ridiculous? Why are you shaking your head?

Kelly: Go watch our podcast, and you will find out very quickly. [Laughter]

Dave: I've watched it. It's fun to watch.

Jimmy: I just love—I love to play.

Kelly: Yes, it is true.

Jimmy: I love fun. It's actually been such a great outlet for me, writing this book, because it does allow me to scratch all of my theological itches [Laughter] while also being as absurd as I want to be, and nobody tells me I can't.

Dave: Yes.

Jimmy: So, it was fun to explore that side of things and [say], “Oh, I can have a pirate with hooks on his hands and feet, [Laughter] and I can talk about, you know—”

Kelly: —which has really been a long-time dream of yours, to combine your love of humor and silliness—

Jimmy: —yes.

Kelly: —with deep, meaningful theology. 

Jimmy: I know!

Kelly: It really has been something.

Jimmy: —t's an odd pairing, people, [Laughter] —

Kelly: —yes.

Jimmy: —but we're going to see if it works.

Dave: It works! I'm telling you right now.

Ann: I laughed out loud at the pirate with this—not just one hook—

Jimmy: —yes.

Ann: —but it's two hooks, and then Henry’s feet, too! [Laughter] —

Jimmy: Two on his feet; he's got four hooks. [Laughter] It's unfortunate, but you know, ‘tis a pirate’s life. [Laughter]

Dave: Yes, and it's interesting to hear your back story on it because, when I'm reading it, I'm laughing—

Ann: —yes.

Dave: —because your humor comes in. There are these little clips.

Jimmy: Yes.

Dave: You're [wondering], “Where am I going?” But the theology's rich!

Jimmy: Yes. Thank you.

Dave: Kids are going to pick up both, and the graphics!

Jimmy: Yes.

Dave: Your artist is phenomenal!

Ann: The illustrator did a great job.

Jimmy: He did.

Dave: I have got to be honest: when I got it, I [thought], “Ugh, a kids’ book.”

Jimmy: Yes.

Ann: Not me.

Dave: And then I’m like, “Oh my goodness!”

Jimmy: Yes,

Dave: “This is not like every kids’ book.”

Jimmy: It's different.

Dave: It’s going to grab you.

Jimmy: It's a different sort of take on things, which has been really fun for me. I love different.

Dave: So, talk about Real Bad Guys.

Jimmy: Yes.

Dave: What's the theology?

Jimmy: I'm a parent, so I'm constantly in conversations about really important things with my kiddos, you know?

Ann: Who range from—5 kids; between the ages of 1 and 13.

Jimmy: One and 13.

Ann: So, you’ve got a range.

Jimmy: I'm in all the conversations!

Dave and Ann: Yes.

Kelly: That’s right!

Jimmy:  And I’m just hitting all of it. This particular book started—there was a conversation I remember having with one of my daughters. We were watching something—it was like a news broadcast or something—and the story was about a criminal. He'd done something bad, and the police were looking for him, or whatever. And, you know, you've got the folks on screen; you have the officer of the case and all that. I remember her pointing to the suspect and saying something like, “Dad is that the bad guy?” She was trying to sort out who the characters are in this story.

Ann: Yes.

Jimmy: “Who am I supposed”—

Ann: —that’s true! Kids always distinguish, “Who is the good guy?”—

Jimmy: —that’s right!

Ann: —"Who is the bad guy?”

Kelly: That’s right.

Jimmy: “Who am I rooting for?”—

Ann: —yes!

Jimmy: —“Who would I want to lose?”

Dave: Right.

Ann: Yes.

Jimmy: That whole thing. And she—

Kelly: —they ask about it in movies.

Jimmy: Of course!

Kelly: Right?

Jimmy: Yes: “I need to know who's on the naughty list.”

Ann: And they say “bad guy” a lot.

Jimmy: They do!

Kelly: I know!

Ann: “Who’s the bad guy?”

Jimmy: Yes.

Kelly: “Who’s the bad guy?”

Jimmy: So, she [asks], “Who's the—is that the bad guy?” And I felt, immediately, a couple of things in me. The first was,” I know what you're trying to do. You're trying to sort out the characters,”—

Dave: —yes.

Jimmy: —but also, as a Christian, I know that the answer’s more complex—

Dave: —yes.

Jimmy: —than just, “He's the bad guy,” because my Bible reveals that he's the bad guy and everybody else on that screen is the bad guy; [Laughter] and I'm the bad—and you, asking the question, you're the—because all of us, at our core, we all have sinned. We've all rejected God. Apart from Christ, we're all the bad guy.

But how do I say this to an 8-year-old? [Laughter]

Ann: Yes.

Jimmy: How do I make that make sense to her? Something that's really important—

Dave: —yes.

Jimmy:  —that she needs to know, but—and that I don't just want to gloss over with, “Oh yes, that's the bad guy.” Because when you do that, you're reinforcing all the stereotypes. It's like, “Oh, the scary-looking people—the people who do the outwardly criminal things; those are the people who are bad and therefore, those are the people who need a savior. But what about my sweet daughter who is at the top of her class in school; who keeps all the rules; who is nice and obedient? Will she ever be able to see her need for a savior if she doesn't realize she's on that same list as the guy on the screen?

So, that's what started this book for me was going, “I want to be able to help you sense that we all need the same Savior,”

Dave: Yes.

Jimmy: So, that was kind of the genesis of this story.

Ann: Really good. Did you read the book? I know that you've read the book to the kids. What did they think?

Jimmy: They love it, thank the Lord, [Laughter] because that's my target audience. So, yes. And the main character, Millie: she's sort of based on my second oldest daughter.

Ann: Awe.

Jimmy: I thought, as I was starting to daydream about this, I thought, “Well, how do you talk about this in a way that'd be interesting for kids?” The first thought that occurred to me was, “It would be really funny if all the stereotypical bad guys that we think about would be on that screen. What if they came to life and corrected her theology? What if she was getting it wrong like my daughter was? What if the nefarious fellas were the ones who—

Kelly: —teaching her right theology.

Jimmy: —teaching her right theology?” So, that's what happened. I wrote a story, [and] it's got a gangster, and a pirate, and a robber, and a mad scientist, and draculas in it. The book begins just like you read a second ago, where she's—

Dave: —but you need to read it.

Jimmy: —Why?

Ann: Well, I was going to say, “At least you have Dracula.” Like, when I first saw that: “Oh, there's a Dracula.”

Jimmy: Yes.

Ann: Would parents have a pushback to that?

Jimmy: Sure.

Ann: He's not scary—

Jimmy: —no.

Ann: —in a like, “Oh, I don't want to look” kind of way.

Jimmy: No.

Ann: He's kind of funny.

Jimmy: Yes. There's really nothing scary about the book and that's kind of the funny thing about it.

Ann: Yes.

Jimmy: All these guys who you should be terrified by are actually sweet goofballs [Laughter] who actually have some really robust theology, [Laughter] so it turns out.

Dave: Yes, they're good.

Ann: I have to hear like you probably have an accent—

Jimmy: —yes.

Ann: —when you read it to your kids.

Dave: Can you read a page or two?

Ann: Kelly, who's his best accent of these characters?

Jimmy: Oh, don’t just— [Laughter]

Kelly: —Oh, I love the mad scientist.

Jimmy: Yes. I’m trying to see—

Kelly: —That’s a favorite of mine.

Jimmy: —if I can pull this up. Oh, here we go. So, she's introducing her bad guys.

Ann: Okay, he's getting into character.

Jimmy: Yes. She's introducing her bad guys and Millie goes, “Meet the wicked Captain Hooks!” (Right, this is Millie talking.) “That's right! Plural. You think having one hook on your hand is freaky? How about having them on both hands?”

And then he goes, “Yes, and two on me feet. It'd be a hardship, but ‘tis a Pirate’s life.” [Laughter]

And it's ridiculous.

Dave: Wow. Wow.

Jimmy: It's ridiculous.

Ann: Are you going to put this on Audible?

Jimmy: We're actually making a whole video of me reading the book in all the characters with all the costumes. [Laughter] Yes, to just get to folks—

Ann: —wait! You're going to wear costumes?

Dave: —You’re going to wear the character?

Jimmy: —I’ve already bought them all—

Kelly: —oh, they're already in the house.

Ann: —what?

Kelly: I've seen them all. It’s wonderful.

Jimmy: It was my favorite trip to Amazon Online. [Laughter]

Dave: Really?

Jimmy: Man, I just went nuts.

Ann: Who's the mad scientist? He doesn't seem like he'd be a bad guy, but he is.

Jimmy: He is a bad guy. Yes. Well, you know, it's sort of that classic guy scheming with his poisons in a laboratory, but he's actually the one who introduces this whole topic to Millie of, “Hey, what if being bad isn't really how you thought? What if God looks more at the inside than the outside?” That's really—the punch line of the book is: the way I distinguish it is to talk about “outside bad” versus “inside bad.”

Dave: Right.

Jimmy: You know that—

Ann: —which was genius to me.

Jimmy: —anyone can see that— it's easy for me to spot: like, you're holding an axe [Laughter] when you're running around like a mad person, like, “Yes, that guy is probably bad.”

What about a sweet-looking innocent girl? Or what about—

Dave: —yes.

Jimmy: —God sees past that.

So, at one point, they bring out—they say, “Bring out the X-ray machine!” (That's the mad scientist.) They put it in front of her and they [say], “Hey, look at these two guys!” They bring out an inmate, and then actually, the little Easter egg in this book is the other person standing next to the inmate is me that the artist drew into the book. I look like a normal guy, and the inmates in the black and white stripes [are] looking like “a bad guy”.

Then we turn on the X-ray but what do you see inside? It's all thoughts about me, wanting me to be glorified; “I'm more important than God,” — all of that. It's an ugly truth, but it's the truth that the Bible reveals about what all of our hearts look like.

When Millie realizes it, she goes, “So, I guess we're all bad guys then,” and she's lamenting, “I guess there's no hope.”

I think the gangster says, “Well, not all of us are bad.”

Ann: Wait! You have to say it like the gangster. [Laughter]

Jimmy: [In gangster voice] “Well, we're not all bad, Missy.” [Laughter] What she discovers is: we are all bad but there has been only one real “Good Guy”, and He died in our place. And He died so that God would treat us like “real good guys” even though we aren't.

If I have one concern—I feel this is a pastor and I feel this as a parent to kids—is not that these people are going to go off and live wild lives. My biggest concern is that they're going to live basically good lives—

Ann: —yes.

Jimmy: —and convince themselves that they don't need a Savior.

Kelly: That’s right.

Jimmy: And that they’re okay: “I'm basically a good person.” It's like this is how the Pharisees saw themselves and those were the people that our Lord had the harshest words for. I don't want my children to grow up with an impression of, “I'm basically good. Jesus is really more for those folks. I have got to wait till my life falls apart for the cross to make sense to me.”

Ann: Yes.

Jimmy: If that's how you're thinking about Christianity, you're actually missing it.

I wrote this because I don't want to make little Pharisees. I want everyone to see their deep need for a Savior. It's amazing when you see that: not only does the cross become beautiful to you, but we become people who stop looking down our nose at other people too, because we realize, just like all these “bad guys” in the book, “I'm on the same plane as you. We need the same mercy from God.”

Man, I so want that for my kids and for any child to read that.

Dave:  You're right. There's a part of us that thinks, “If you put the X-ray machine on me, —

Jimmy: —yes, —

Dave: —my insides—

Jimmy: —you won’t see that much stuff.

Dave: —compared to this dude, —

Jimmy: —sure.

Dave: —I'm better.”

But I love how you wrote, “Jesus was duh only person;” (not the) “Jesus, was duh only person who was good on da outside and on da inside.”

Jimmy: That’s right.

Dave: What a turn in this book for a 5-year-old, 10-year-old, 15-year-old, to go, —

Kelly: —yes.

Jimmy: —that’s right.

Dave: — “What do you mean by that?” The Gospel just jumps off the page.

Jimmy: Yes.

Ann: Well, I also like how you take Millie on a journey of her discovering the things—

Jimmy: —that’s right!

Ann: —that she has done.

Jimmy: Yes.

Ann: Walk us through a couple of those. Do you remember some of her discoveries?

Jimmy: Yes. So, those might be the most important pages of the book. She's [thinking], “Oh, okay. So, like when I buy gifts for my friends and give it to them but I'm only doing it so that they'll give me a gift later.” It's like, “Okay, is the giving of a gift a bad thing?” No. Anybody would look at that and they would say, “Good for you. That's amazing!” But what's happening on the inside of her? She's doing it because she wants herself to be celebrated.

Or, when I sing loud at church, but only so other people would hear me and tell me how good [of] a singer I am. It's like if you saw somebody's just pouring their heart out and worship on a Sunday morning, you'd go, “Be more like that person.”

Dave and Ann: Yes.

Jimmy: But we don't know what's happening in the heart.

Again, I want to expose the readers to a new category of you can be doing the right things. Again, the Pharisees did so many of the right things.

Dave: Right.

Jimmy: They prayed the prayers; they gave tithes of all that they got. Remember the Pharisee and the tax collector story, right? “I fast twice a week. I give tithes.” But he was not justified before God because he was doing it for himself.

Kelly: Well, I think the temptation as parents is to actually affirm this goodness in our kids. There's, I think, a strong temptation when our kids come to us: “But no, you're good. No, you're doing great. No, I'm—." And we should be celebrating them; that's part of our role as parents to be encouragers—

Jimmy: —that’s right.

Kelly: —to celebrate the wins. But as Christian parents, it's also our job to evangelize our kids. They do not come out [of] the womb saved. [Laughter] They don't, and we all know that. But the first part of the Gospel narrative is this piece we're talking about; that you wrote about. It's: “You need to see your need, and that starts with seeing motive.”

For most of our kids, it's going to start with motive. They're probably not going to be the kids—if you're listening to this program, they're probably not the kids who are doing outward bad things. You're probably training them well; they're probably moral; they're probably learning those things, but they still need to see: “I'm motivated by self.” And seeing that in every action is what's going to lead them to the cross.

And you, being able to admit as a parent: “Me too. I'm only seeing change in that motive because I'm going to Jesus, not because I'm trying harder.”

Jimmy: Yes.

Ann: One of the things I've been intrigued—it's different being a grandparent because I'm observing—I think in parenting, you're just in it so much.

Jimmy: Yes.

Ann: In grandparenting, you're observing sometimes, like, “Oh, that's so interesting,” because sometimes when I'm with them, they like to hear stories where I have failed—

Kelly: —yes.

Ann: —or I have sinned. Like, “What did you do?”

Jimmy: Yes, sure.

Ann:  And so, I realized, it's good for me to share my weaknesses—

Kelly: —yes.

Ann: —and how I have sinned and what I have done with it. Why do you guys think that is with your five kids when you have failed?

Kelly: Yes.

Jimmy: Well—and you're right! Our kids like the same thing.

Ann: They do?

Kelly: They do, yes.

Jimmy: Yes, yes. I think it reminds them [that] you're human. Now you're relatable.

Kelly: That’s right, —

Ann: —yes.

Kelly: —yes.

Jimmy: Now, you're not some unachievable standard that it's like, “Well, [I’ll] never be like Mom and Dad. I might as well abandon the whole project.” [Laughter]

It's like—one thing we try to do a lot with our kids, (and we have plenty of opportunities to because we're sinners) is just repent to them a lot.

Ann: Yes.

Jimmy: Like the other day—2 days ago, I was with my son, and he had done something or other, and I was so angry in my moment of disciplining him. I was able to control myself, but not to the degree I liked. So, I came back to him that night and I just owned it. I was like, “I was disciplining you out of anger and I think that was unkind to you. It didn't please the Lord. I'm sorry. I hope you can forgive me.” He's five, but I want him to have a ton of memories—

Kelly: —yes.

Jimmy: —of his dad—

Dave and Ann: —yes.

Jimmy: —being able to go: “I failed. I am not perfect. There's only one real Good Guy. It's Jesus. It's not me.”

If that's one of the takeaways he has when he's 18, leaving the house; it's like: “My dad repented a lot to me.” It's like, “Well, I'm really happy for that, you know?”

Kelly: Yes.

Dave: That's big.

Kelly: Well, and you're showing them the way into the Kingdom when you do that, because that's how we come to Jesus, in repentance and faith. But if they've never seen anybody repent—

Dave: —yes.

Kelly: —they don't know what that looks like. It's just words.

Ann: And I think too, as a parent, I did that a lot. But I would continue to beat myself up. It's almost like the Gospel had no effect: where I repented before Jesus; I apologized to my kids; went to them and owned it. But then I would continue this barrage of: “You are failing. —

Jimmy: —yes.

Ann: —You're a bad parent.” And that's when the enemy can kind of slip in—

Jimmy and Kelly: —yes.

Ann: —but it's the beauty of the Gospel. Receive it!

Jimmy: Yes!

Ann: The price has been paid for us and we can rest in that. And I'll say this: “My kids remember the repentance—

Jimmy and Kelly: —yes.

Ann: —more than what I actually did.”

Jimmy and Kelly: Yes.

Ann: I prayed that too: “Lord, let them forget [Laughter] all the ways I messed up, Jesus. There’s so many.” And they do a lot of times.

So, I would say, “Receive His grace—

Kelly: —yes.

Ann: —as a parent. Make sure you apologize. Talk to Jesus about it. Tell Him the truth. Figure out what's going on in your heart. But man, give yourself grace because He does.

Jimmy: Yes. That's right.

Kelly: He does, yes.

Dave: And I love at the end you have conversation starters—

Ann: —Me too!

Dave: —so you literally give parents some questions that say, “Okay—

Jimmy: —a little bit of fodder for—

Dave: —yes, —

Jimmy: —for discussion. —

Dave: —and they're good. I mean, you're going to have a pretty deep conversation—

Jimmy: —yes.

Dave: —with a three, or five, or eight-year-old, —

Ann: —Let's ask a question.

Dave: —if you do that.

Jimmy: Yes.

Ann: Did you see one that you want to talk about?

Dave: Yes. In the story, Millie learns about “outside bad” and “inside bad”. What do these terms mean? How are they different from each other?

Jimmy: Yes.

Dave: I mean, you're digging into [Laughter] the depravity of sin. —

Jimmy: —yes, we talked about that in seminary.

Dave: —yes.

Kelly: When we've had that conversation a little bit with our own kids, and it's interesting that within our five children, there are some that are more outside bad kids, [Laughter] right? —

Dave and Ann: —yes.

Kelly: —And some that are more inside bad kids.

Dave and Ann: Yes

Kelly: So, we've got a few of them that are really good at following the rules but are really manipulative. So, it's like they can follow Mom and Dad's rules and kind of stay in line and not get as many of those discipline moments.

And then there are others who are just wild and fearless and, “I'm just going to do what I want.” The ones who are more obedient on the outside can tend to have this pride about it.

So, we've had really good conversations—

Jimmy: —yes, we have.

Kelly: —with some of our kids, trying to help them see: “Inside bad isn't always breaking the rules.”

Dave: Yes.

Kelly: It's why you're doing what you’re doing. —

Jimmy: —It's why you keep the rules.

Ann: —oh!

Kelly: —Why you keep the rules; that you're actually the same as this sibling of yours who you kind of look down your nose at. It's like, “Yes, they have outside bad; it's different.” We can recognize it's different.

Ann: You have a question that goes along with that. I'm thinking, “This would be so fun to have kids and talk about these questions.”

Jimmy: Yes.

Ann: You can probably only do one question at the dinner table.

Jimmy: That’s right, yes.

Kelly: Right.

Ann: But one question even for a night. Here's one of the questions: “It can be tempting” (this is what you're talking about) “to look down on others who have more outside bad than us, like kids who get in trouble at school, or siblings who might not obey Mom and Dad as well as you. How can seeing your own inside bad change how you treat other people?”

Jimmy: Yes.

Ann: Guys, that's just deep!

Jimmy: Yes.

Ann: We could ask that every day in our marriage. [Laughter]

Dave: I was just going to say that's not just parenting.

Jimmy and Ann: Yes.

Dave: That's a marriage thing—

Jimmy and Ann: —yes.

Dave: —because we do the same thing in marriage. When you said, “Some of your kids are better inside/ outside, I thought, “What's Jimmy?” [Laughter] Is he better outside bad or inside bad because I'm—

Jimmy: —I've got it all. I tried to do both. [Laughter] I tried to get a little bit of outside; a little bit of inside. We just keep it—yes, that's right.

Dave: I tend to be a rebel, so I'm more outside—

Kelly: —I was going to say I— definitely coming into marriage—I was the “I'm the Inside Bad person. You [Jimmy] were the—

Jimmy: —yes.

Kelly: —Outside [Bad Person],” [Laughter]

Ann: Yes, that was Dave and I too, for sure.

Kelly: Well, what's interesting—and I think this is related to this conversation—[Jimmy] you've had such a big effect on me in a positive way that as my pride was being exposed in some areas of my life; some spiritual pride, especially early on in our marriage, I felt so distraught. This picture I had of myself as this good Christian woman is getting destroyed and I'm grieving that.

I remember talking to you about it one day and going, “I thought the water in my glass was clean and now it's all dirty. I'm so sad.” And your response to me at one point was, “Well, my glass fell over, and all the water poured out a long time ago. [Laughter] That's why I'm okay with it;” because I think I was asking for advice like, “How do I deal this?”

But really, at an early age in your life, and then throughout—the way that God saved you; your own personal testimony and story; you've been so thoroughly convinced of your badness from the moment I met you that it's actually helped you understand the Gospel more, receive it more, and live it out more than I was able to as a church kid who had all the rule-following together.

So, I'm excited about this book because it's Christian parents who are going to buy it, and those are the kids who need that truth—

Dave and Ann: —yes.

Kelly: —because it will set them free. It's very counterintuitive to tell their kids they're bad—

Dave and Ann: —yes.

Kelly: — to set them free but it will produce more lasting freedom.

Jimmy: Yes.

Kelly: I've seen that in you, and it's really changed me as well.

Ann: And it's written in such a fun, compelling, draws-everybody-in, —

Kelly: —yes.

Ann: —well done! We're always looking for great children's books, and when they're deeper in theology, whoo! That is a bonus!

Dave: Yes, that is good.

Ann: The thing I love about you guys is you're such fans of each other.

Jimmy: I'm a big fan of this girl right here.

Ann: I can tell—

Jimmy: —big fan.

Ann: —both ways. Well done!

Shelby: One of the defining things in my life lately has been the grace that God has given me to see myself not as a good person, but a bad person who needs to be set free from my badness. And it's been grace that God has given me to see that. I love this, and I love, like Kelly said, the counter-intuitiveness of telling your kids that they're bad. It doesn't sound very much like what we communicate in our culture today, but this could be the very thing that sets them free.

I'm Shelby Abbott, and you've been listening to Dave and Ann Wilson with Jimmy and Kelly Needham on FamilyLife Today. Jimmy has written a book called Real Bad Guys: A Story about Good vs Bad and the Way God Sees It. You can get your copy right now, of Jimmy’s book, by going online to FamilyLifeToday.com or clicking on the link in the show notes. Or feel free to give us a call at 800-358-6329 to request your copy. Again, that number is 800-“F” as in family, “L” as in life, and then the word, “TODAY.”

Even though it's mid-September, the truth is, February is just around the corner. Why am I telling you about February right now? Well, [on] February 8th, we are setting sail for the Love Like You Mean It ^® Marriage Cruise. That's right! It goes from February 8th through the 15^th, where you can join a community of like-minded couples and really entrench yourself in a journey designed to rejuvenate your marriage, but, more importantly, draw you closer to Christ.

There are limited spaces still available, but they are limited, so head over to FamilyLifeToday.com and click on the Love Like You Mean It Marriage Cruise banner. There, you can secure your reservation and get ready to embark on a week of relaxation, renewal, and romance. Again, you can head over to FamilyLifeToday.com. Just click on the Love Like You Mean It Marriage Cruise banner.

So, as we approach the end of September, it might be weird to think about it, but Halloween is coming up soon, and depending on how you think about that, it can be a great opportunity to reach your neighbors and your neighborhood for Christ. Well, Jimmy and Kelly Needham have some advice to help you with that, based on a few things that they have done. You can watch a video about that, read an article, and download a specific playbook that they've developed. You can head over to FamilyLifeToday.com or click on the link in the show notes to get all those resources.

Now, coming up next week, if you couldn't join us for the last Love Like You Mean It Marriage Cruise, don't worry. Brian and Stephanie Carter are going to be here to talk about their insights on building and restoring trust in your marriage. It's a message from the Love Like You Mean It Marriage Cruise last year. That's coming up next week. We hope you'll join us.

On behalf of Dave and Ann Wilson, I’m Shelby Abbott. We will see you back next time for another edition of FamilyLife Today.

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