Sacrificial Love Made Simple(r): Chad & Emily Van Dixhoorn

Chad: Am I like Christ, loving my spouse deeply, sacrificially, purposefully, faithfully? That’s what Christ did. So, am I loving her with all that I am and have? Because that’s how Christ has loved me.

Shelby: Welcome to FamilyLife Today, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I’m Shelby Abbott, and your hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson. You can find us at FamilyLifeToday.com.

Ann: This is FamilyLife Today!

Ann: I remember, on our honeymoon—

Dave: —oh, boy! We’re going to our honeymoon.

Ann: Yes! We were in Boston, staying at this gorgeous hotel in downtown Boston.

Dave: It cost a lot of money.

Ann: You were really overwhelmed [on] our second night of marriage, and you actually cried, which I thought was so sweet. You said, “I don’t think I can do this. I don’t think I know what it’s like to be a husband, a man who walks with God. I’ve never seen it. I don’t know how I’m going to provide. I feel this weight. I don’t even know how to function.” I remember [thinking], “That is—I never thought that you carried that. You’re so confident.” I thought, “You’ve got all of this!” I felt so confident in you as a man.

Yet, at the same time, I remember thinking, “But we’ll do it together! We’ll do it together.” Let me ask you: do you feel like you had this checklist as a man? As a man walking with God? You felt like, “I need to be this kind of godly man?”

Dave: Yes. I mean, it was two weeks after our first-ever marriage conference, that we went to as an engaged couple, and part of the conference that we now speak for, FamilyLife’s Weekend to Remember^®. They laid out, in the men’s session, responsibilities of a husband and dad. You went to the wives’ session. And I had never heard any of this before. I didn’t grow up in a Christian home, so I’d never seen it.

Ann: Your dad was an alcoholic and cheated on your mom.

Dave: Yes; I mean, adultery, alcohol, and a broken family. And now, I’m married, and I’m feeling like, “Okay, I just heard what I’m supposed to be doing, and I can’t do it. I’m scared to death. I’m just going to blow this thing up and let you down.”

Yes, I remember just weeping.

Ann: I think today is going to be fun, because we’re going to talk to Chad and Emily Van Dixhoorn again about their book, Gospel-Shaped Marriage. We’ve been talking for the last two days about what this looks like. What does the gospel look like when it’s applied to our marriages in our homes?

So, we’re going to get into this today, and we’re going to talk about, maybe, a list for husbands.

Dave: A checklist!

Ann: Doesn’t this sound exciting, women? “Here’s a checklist for our husbands!”

We’re not going to give one to you, though.

Dave: Oh, yes, we are! We have to give the women one, too; but we’ll save that. Maybe we’ll never get there.

Chad, in the book, you sort of list some things that are like a checklist for men. When I talk to men about this, I sort of think that way.

Chad: Yes.

Dave: “If you’re like me, guys, you just tell me what to do. Just tell me what to do!”

Chad: Yes, yes.

Ann: But most men don’t know what to do.

Dave: They do not know! So, when you hear “a checklist,” you say, “Okay, I’d like to hear that and consider it, and figure out how I do this.

Chad: Yes.

Dave: So, walk us through some of these.

Chad: Let me back up and say: a checklist is good, but you first need a model.

Dave: Yes.

Chad: The Apostle Paul, in Ephesians 5, gives two models. The one is very earthy, the other’s pretty heavenly. The earthy one is, “Love your wife like you love yourself.” Every guy knows how to love himself.

Dave: Yes.

Chad: You spend time; you spend money; you think a lot about yourself. Taking that kind of effort, time, energy, creativity, and applying it to your wife—that’s one model.

Dave: Yes.

Chad: You know, the way we love ourselves, even when something’s wrong with our self is a great model. If you’ve got a broken leg, you don’t just say, “Ah, well! Hack it off!” [Laughter] You take care of it! You nurture it. So, if your wife is broken and suffering—

Emily: t—the weaker vessel—

Chad: t—the weaker vessel (you know, sinning or whatever it is), you don’t just say, “Ah, well! I’m going to upgrade. I’m going to look for something better.” You say, “What do I do when I am defective, broken, or weak; whatever it might be?” You take care of yourself. So, that’s the one model.

The other model is the heavenly one, right? “Love your wife like Christ loves the Church.” [Ephesians 5:25, Paraphrased] Boy, that pitches it high! You know, if a wife thinks she’s got a pretty tough job, that’s a pretty big. . .

You know, as you were saying, Dave, that’s pretty scary! [Laughter]

Dave: Yes.

Chad: That’s pretty intimidating.

Dave: Yes, and you know this: even when you look at what Paul said in Ephesians 5, honestly, there’s really one verse to the woman—

Emily: —yes—

Dave: —and the rest are to the husband! Ten or twelve! [Laughter] And all the guys I know are like, “I know what she’s supposed to do! She’s supposed to submit.” I say, “Do you know what you’re supposed to do?”

Chad: Yes.

Dave: “Oh, no. I never—”

“It’s most of the chapter, dude! You’d better read it!”

Chad: Yes.

Dave: So, when you think of a checklist, it’s coming out of that context, right? Out of Ephesians 5?

Chad: Yes. I guess I think in terms of some diagnostic questions. When I want to say, “Am I loving my wife?” that can be pretty abstract.

Dave: Yes.

Chad: “Am I loving her as Christ loves the Church?” More concrete, but still kind of abstract.

So, you know, some of the useful questions that I can ask myself (and I don’t ask myself regularly enough, but I’m working on this)—

Dave: —yes; and guys, let me just say: as you hear these, ask yourself. I know it’s going to be tempting for the wife to say, “No, I’m going to ask him.”

Ann: Yes.

Dave: It’s not going to go as well if you ask him. This is for a guy to ask himself.

Emily: Yes, yes.

Chad: As we think about Christ’s love for us, these are the kinds of questions that come to mind when I think about how I might love Emily better:

Am I loving her with all that I am and all that I have? In other words, am I like Christ, loving my spouse deeply, sacrificially, purposefully, faithfully? That’s what Christ did. So, am I loving her with all that I am and have? Because that’s how Christ has loved me. That’s the first question.

Ann: Okay, I want to hear from Emily. What would that look like for you? And it will be different for every wife, every woman; but for Chad to do that, what could it look like?

Emily: Well, I’ll say, even when we’re just relaxing, watching TV, he will get up and get the ice cream. He will say, “I’ll get that for you. I’ll get that for you.” He’s ready to just serve.

Ann: So, serving?

Emily: Yes, packing up the suitcase, sometimes, for me. Rather humble tasks, but it’s serving the need that he sees. And I want to point out that I am not telling him to do this. This is only something that comes from God working in his heart.

Chad: I think I’m coming off a little more generous and thoughtful than I really am. [Laughter]

Ann: But it’s good.

Chad: Thank you.

Ann: That’s a good question to ask your wife: what would it look like for me to love you in a way that you feel like, ‘He’s giving me everything that he has?’”

Chad: Yes.

Ann: I think for you, Dave, when you sit across the table from me, and look me straight in the eye, and when I’m talking, you’re interested; you know, you’re not on your phone.

I’ve told you this before, but when you come in the kitchen, if I’m making something, and you’ll be in there with me, partnering with me, I don’t even care if you sit in the chair; but when you’re in there with me, I feel like, ‘Oh, look at us! We’re a team!’”

So, every woman would answer that in a different way—

Chad: —yes—

Ann: —but I like the idea of the husband being an expert in what that looks like.

Dave: Yes, but I’d also add this, because when you were saying that, Chad, I was thinking, one of our stories (and I won’t go into it, because listeners have heard it and it’s in our book, Vertical Marriage, and in our small group; and whenever we speak, we tell this story and people are laughing their heads off, because it’s so bad) [is] that we had this big conflict about a parking spot at our church.

It’s a long story, so I won’t get into it; but the gist of the conflict was, at some point—and we got pretty heated in this conflict, so it went for a couple hours—after we settled down (like we talked with you a couple days ago about walking away for a moment), when we came back together, I said to Ann: “Do you feel like my job (my job as a pastor) is more important to me than you are?” She nodded her head.

It wasn’t until that moment in the conflict that I thought, “Oh, I thought this was about this argument about this parking spot.”

Emily: Yes.

Dave: “This was never about this. It’s like you don’t feel loved by me.”

So, I think, Chad, when I hear that, it’s like all of those things you said are really important as well, but for me, in that moment, it was like, “The way to love her is to make what I say real. I say she’s my priority, but she wasn’t.” I would have debated that when she said, “Your job as a pastor is more important. The people at the church are more important, because they get your heart more than I do.”

I would have said, “That is not true, because I love you!” But the fact that she said it meant, “It is true.” So, I needed to shift my whole mindset. To answer Chad’s question—“Am I loving her with everything I have?”—I would have said, “Sure, I am!” But I think in some ways, we have to [ask], “Honey, do you feel—?”

Ann: Yes.

Emily: Yes.

Dave: And if they say, “Yes,” you say, “Okay.” If they say, “No,” you say, “Then what does that look like?” Because, obviously, I think I am, but—

Ann: —but you’re missing it.

Dave: Then, that day, she said, “Here’s what it looks like.” And I said, “Okay, you’re right. I’ve got to change.” That’s a big one for us guys! We’re called to love her like Christ loved the Church, but we don’t know how to do it.

Ann: And it won’t be perfect!

Chad: Oh, yes.

Ann: Like Emily [said], “It’s not going to be perfect.” And they’re not going to change overnight, like, “I’m good from now on!” Just like us, we all need that grace—

Emily: —yes—

Ann: —of knowing that we’re going to fall, we’re going to fail; but we’re pursuing Jesus, and we’re pursuing each other.

Emily: And when I give him my ideas as to, “This is what it would look like,” I am trying to set easy hoops for him to jump through.

Ann: Oh, that’s good!

Emily: I’m not going to ask him to sacrifice something that would pull him away from what I think God has called him to do.

Dave: Yes.

Ann: “Take me to Europe for three weeks.”

Dave: Yes! [Laughter] Or “If you really loved me. . .”

I’m more—I’m not going to demand it all the time. Just “here are some ways that you can show me that you love me.” I’m not looking to see him fail. I’m actually looking to see him succeed.

Ann: Let’s hear another one.

Chad: Everything else is kind of a subset of the one big question, right? So, they’re all kind of further diagnostic questions, but really trying to get to the same place. Another one is: “Am I studying my wife?” And this dovetails with what Dave was saying a moment ago. “Am I trying to understand her needs? Do I know her as a person?”

I’ve had some pretty epic fails with this one. I think we were married for—how many years?

Emily: We were married for eleven years, and he kindly offered me some orange juice. Then he asked me, “Would you like some ice in your orange juice?” And I thought, “Okay, it’s about time I asked him this question.”

“Love, how many times—”

Chad: “How many years have we been married?”

Emily: “How many years have we been married?”

Chad: I knew something was wrong right there.

Emily: He said, “Eleven.” I said, “Have you offered me orange juice before?” He said, “Yes, about every day.” “Have I ever asked for ice in my orange juice?” “No! No, you’ve never wanted ice in your orange juice.”

“Yes, so, I think it’s about time you kind of know my drink preferences.” [Laughter]

Chad: It’s a safe example, because it’s a tame example; but there are bigger ways in which I have failed to study her, and that will come out in a conversation.

Dave: When we talk about this, I’ll often say to guys: “Love—you know, we’ll say, ‘I love ice cream,’ ‘I love Jesus.’ So, I think the word (and Paul uses it in Ephesians 5) is cherish.” When you look up that definition, it means you protect, and you study. It’s costly, and it’s beloved.” It’s like men know how to study whatever they’re into!

Emily: Yes.

Dave: Whether it’s golf—or I’m a guitar guy, so I can tell you that my guitars need to be in a humidified room. Then, when you say, “I cherish a guitar?” “Yes.” What would it look like to cherish my wife?” That’s what you’re saying, right?

Chad: Yes.

Dave: Study her; bring the best out of her. Water, sunlight, or whatever it is. What would that look like if your spouse felt like, “I am that important to him. He studies me, and then, he cares for me.”

Ann: And when you think about Christ’s love for the Church, He died for the Church. He knows everything about His bride.

Emily: Yes.

Ann: He knows her and loves her and cherishes her. That’s a heavy calling for a man.

Emily: And even knowing the timing of a certain kind of conversation, like, “Oh, she’s having her coffee right now, and she doesn’t like to be interrupted. This is her little relaxation—”

Ann: —“her escape”—

Emily: “This is her little escape. This is not the time.” And it sometimes takes a surprisingly long amount of time to figure those things out.”

Chad: Yes.

Ann: I think this would be a great little action point—for men, of course; we’re coming up with this for men: if you wrote her or texted her, “These are the things I’ve learned about you over the years.” Things that are good, like, “I know you. There’s something about when you feel like your husband knows you—

Emily: —yes.

Dave: —and sees you—

Ann: —and sees you; and has recognized things that you do. Man, that’s attractive! And for me, it makes tears come to my eyes, just thinking of [how] he, out of the whole world, has seen the worst in me, and yet, he knows me and is willing to serve me.

Emily: Yes, yes.

Ann: Whew! That’s beautiful gospel-love.

Dave: That’s the gospel, yes.

Chad: Yes, yes.

Emily: Yes.

Chad: So, I guess another thing on this list, and, really, the most important orientation that you get to study your wife, [is] asking: “How does that inform my prayers?” So, I pray for Emily based on that knowledge I have of her, that growing knowledge.

Once, I was at a conference, and Emily explained how she prays for me. I was just stunned and grateful.

Ann: What does that look like, Emily?

Emily: Yes; we are in a very privileged place, as spouses, that we do see so much of the other person. What are you going to do with that intel that you have? Are you going to use it to condemn them? to win an argument against them? Or are you going to use it to pray for them, because you see what they need?

You know, we might be tempted, sometimes, to sort of give our spouse an instruction sheet, in order to try and change our spouse, saying, “This is what you should be doing!”

Dave: Yes.

Emily: Bring that instruction sheet to the Lord. The Lord says, “Pray according to my will. I hear you, and I’ll do it.” [1 John 5:14, Paraphrased] That’s where I have confidence. [With] all the things I want for him, I go to the Lord. And I want a lot for him. [Laughter]

I can’t fit it all in one day. So, I’ve spread it across the whole week, and I’ve organized it so it’s just in my mind. I can remember it, partly, because of the first letter of the day of the week, and partly, because of the order of the relationships that he has. I’ll explain:

Sunday – the most important relationship is his relationship with God, so I pray for him as a child of God, that he would know all the blessings and privileges of being a child of God; that he would be honest with the Lord; that he would be growing in the Lord. That’s Sunday.

Monday – as a spouse, as a husband. I pray for him with all of the commands in mind for husbands, and I pray for myself as his wife. It helps us get specific in our prayers, so that we can see the answers. We can see God at work when we’re specific.

Tuesday – as a father, and I pray for myself as a mother. I pray that he would love the kids, discipline the kids well, bond with the kids, have common interests; all of that.

Next relationship [is him as] a worker. Wednesday – “W” for worker. I pray for God to bless his work. He’s also a writer. I pray that He’d bless his writing. I pray for good relationships with his boss, with his colleagues, with those whom he works with. Again, I can get really specific.

Thursday – I take the “H” in Thursday, because I’ve already used the “T” for “training your children on Tuesday.” I take the “H” on Thursday, and I pray for his health. There are always health issues to pray for. I also pray for a thankful heart for him, because we all need—

Ann: —so, heart and health.

Emily: Heart and health, right. Thank you!

Ann: I like it.

Emily: Yes.

Friday – I pray for friendships. Don’t we know [that] friendships are such a treasure? They make a huge difference in our lives; and sometimes, they can be hard to find and hard to develop. We don’t want to take them for granted. So, I pray for good friends. The Lord has answered that prayer for us. It can take years! These are prayers that you do over the whole course of your marriage.

And then, Saturday – as stewards; that we would be good stewards of our finances, because God cares how we use our money; of our talents. I pray that God would give us talents and that we’d use them for His glory; and stewards of the gospel, that God would give him gifts to share the gospel.

Ann: Yes. Chad, what does it make you feel?

Chad: Well, the first time I heard that, I was not dry-eyed. I just thought, “Wow! I know she prays for me,” but just the thoughtfulness and the productive granularity to some of these petitions is just so deeply moving to me.

You know, eventually, I’ve basically copied this. We both have other things we pray for on those days, but now I have something that makes sense to me in praying for Emily on each day of the week. You know, learning from her, my prayers are much deeper than they used to be for her. Boy, you should see the change!

Dave: Do you guys pray together?

Emily: Yes!

Chad: Yes, we do.

Emily: It’s very important to pray together. Sometimes, they’re short times of prayer. We do have family devotions.

Chad: Okay, when we first got married, I was so energized. So, we translated passages of Greek and Hebrew, because we were newly married—

Ann: —wait! You did this together?

Chad: Yes, we did this together.

Emily: Because we were in seminary.

Chad: We would start this at 10:30 at night.

Ann: Well, you both have many degrees, so I’m not surprised by this. [Laughter]

Chad: Then, we’d memorize a part of Scripture, and we’d read a part of Scripture, and we’d read a commentary on that; then, we’d memorize some classic statement of the Christian faith together. Then, we’d do prayer requests.

Eventually, Emily was there, kind of waving the white flag. She said, “This is really not working!” So, now, we just pray together, you know? [Laughter] It just sort of got diminished over the years—

Emily: —it was reduced to smaller—

Chad: —and now, we just pray together every night.

Emily: “How about just a Proverb?” [Laughter]

Ann: Especially when each child came, you know?

Emily: Yes!

Chad: That’s right, yes.

Emily: So, it adapts. We definitely believe there are a lot of options for how to spend a little time in the Word together and a little time in prayer together.

Chad: And then, we also pray together and read a part of the Bible together as a family. So, there’s the individual, family after dinner, and then, together when we go to bed.

Emily: And it’s not rigid; this does not happen every single day.

Chad: Then, connected to the prayer thing is this other heart question, which I thought I needed to ask myself:

“What am I aiming for in my prayers? You hear all the different things we pray for, but am I really praying for her, or am I hoping that God will change her for my convenience?”

Ann: Ooh, that’s good.

Chad: So, that’s, again—I thought about the praying part of this, and then I thought, “What a minute. Even when I pray for her, I’m sometimes really just praying for my own convenience, rather than out of love for her.” So, that was just kind of another diagnostic question on where my heart is with her.

Ann: I had a friend that, [during] every single Bible study, she said, “Pray that my husband comes to know Jesus. Pray that my husband comes to know Jesus.” So, we were all vigilant in praying for this man. He was a friend of Dave’s, actually. Sure enough, he gives his life to Christ, and she’s still not happy.

She thought him coming to know Jesus would change everything. Her prayer is exactly what you’re saying, Chad. It was for her convenience. “If he comes to Christ, my life will be better,” which is generally true, but it also takes a while.

Chad: Yes.

Ann: In the meantime, when we’re only looking at our spouse, thinking, “If he would change, I would be happy,” that’s not true! So often, we are the ones who, when we put our eyes on ourselves and ask God, “How do I need to change? How can I love him, whether he changes or not?”

Emily: Yes.

Ann: Whoo! I like the self-analysis of, “Am I praying for her to get what I want, or that it’s for her general good?”

Chad: Yes; and then, sort of, in a sense, this is compatible, but maybe a little bit in reverse, when it comes to Bible study:

“When I study the Bible, am I also asking how I can make the Bible come alive? When I’m studying God’s Truth—you know, when I’m reading the Bible in the morning; God’s Promises, or whatever it might be—am I also thinking to myself, ‘How might I use that to enrich our family life, our conversations?’”

In other words, am I just kind of coming to the dinner table and opening up the Bible afterwards, and just expecting pure genius to come out? [Laughter] Or am I actually thinking ahead of time what might be a blessing to my wife and children? So, am I trying to be a little mini-theologian, a mini-Bible expert? Principally, so I might love the Lord better and the overflow of that love and relationship will bless others. But also, actually, deliberately thinking, “How might I bless my family as a Christian man, as a husband and father?”

So, that’s another question I’m asking myself, because I can get super-lazy there.

Ann: Emily, will you close by praying for our listeners, who, maybe, are listening—

Emily: —yes—

Ann: —and they’re wrapping their heads around this, thinking—

Emily: —yes—

Ann: —(and, maybe, who’ve listened to the last three days); just pray for them?

Emily: Sure.

Father in heaven, we praise Your Name, that You are a holy God; You are a wise God, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. I lift up the listeners to You, that all would know that Your eyes are upon them; that You have light for them in Your Word; that You have light for them about marriage in Your Word; that they would know that Jesus is gracious; that they would know Jesus is for them; that they would look to Him as their Guide; and that they would show His love in their lives, we pray. In Jesus’s Name, Amen.

Shelby: Jesus is for you; Jesus is for your marriage. May He show His love to you and your spouse within the context of your marriage today. Look for it! Look for it! Look for evidence of the Lord’s grace in your relationship with your spouse—in your marriage—today. You’re probably going to find it if you go looking for it.

I’m Shelby Abbott, and you’ve been listening to Dave and Ann Wilson with Chad and Emily Van Dixhoorn on FamilyLife Today. Chad and Emily have written a book called Gospel-Shaped Marriage: Grace for Sinners to Love Like Saints. This book really helps you to understand how Christ empowers and calls couples to cultivate a loving and supportive marriage grounded in biblical principles and practical wisdom. You can get your copy, right now, of Gospel-Shaped Marriage by going online to FamilyLifeToday.com [and looking] in the show notes.

Or feel free to give us a call. Our number is 800-358-6329; again, the number is 800-“F” as in family, “L” as in life, and then the word, “TODAY.”

Now, coming up tomorrow, guess what? It’s back to school season. That’s right! And that can be stressful for kids and for parents. Well, tomorrow, David and Meg Robbins, our very own, are going to be with the Wilsons about overcoming fears and embracing the joys of parenting. That’s coming up tomorrow. We hope you’ll join us.

On behalf of Dave and Ann Wilson, I’m Shelby Abbott. We will see you back next time for another edition of FamilyLife Today.

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