The Journey to Us: Ron & Nan Deal

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The Journey to Us

Guests:Ron and Nan Deal

From the series:Mindful Marriage (Day 3 of 3)

Air date:January 8, 2025

Ann:I think one of my favorite moments and memories that I still have is—

Dave:—marrying me.

Ann:Well, yeah; but actually, it was before that; because we went to a FamilyLife Weekend to Remember® conference. We had to write a love letter to each other.

Dave:Oh, yeah.

Ann:Remember that?

Dave:We still have it,—

Ann:We still have it.

Dave:—44 years later.

Ann:And I remember reading that, crying; because when you’re in a relationship with someone—and even if you’ve been married for a while—we don’t always say the things that are important and that matter. There’s something about getting away, taking time to focus on your marriage. It’s just hard to do that in today’s day and age, and culture; especially, if you have kids, it’s hard!

Dave:And you may be even thinking, “I couldn’t write a love letter to my spouse right now”; and that’s why you need to go. Because Friday night—sort of the walls start to come down—Saturday, God starts to work in things you didn’t know that you felt; you’ll start feeling again.

Ann:And maybe, your marriage is doing great; and you just need a little pick-me-up. But maybe, you’re just struggling, thinking, “I don’t know if we’re going to make it.” Why wouldn’t you come to this?

Dave:And I’d say, “Sign up today. You know why?—50 percent off.

Ann:—50 percent!

Dave:Did you hear me?—50 percent off, which means you get half off on the registration for the Weekend. You don’t want to miss that opportunity. So here’s how you do it: “Go to FamilyLifeToday.com, and click on the banner there, to sign up for any Weekend to Remember in any city in the country. You can go anywhere you want; they’re all over the country.

Ann:And let me just add: this could be a great gift you give to your kids, your grandkids, your friends, your neighbor, a coworker. This could be an incredible gift.

Dave:And this registration—50 percent off—goes until January 20. So again, it’s FamilyLifeToday.com; or you can call us at 800-358-6329. That’s 800-F as in Family, L as in Life, and the word, TODAY.

Nan:“What’s one of the fruits of the Spirit I can do right now? Is it patience? Is it self-control with my mouth?” I also find that, if I can just pray in the moment for what God can do in me and show me; because sometimes, I’m not seeing it. I need to see that truth, that I’m going to pick up a fruit of the Spirit.

Ann:Welcome to FamilyLife Today, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I’m Ann Wilson.

Dave:And I’m Dave Wilson. And you can find us at FamilyLifeToday.com. This is FamilyLife Today!

Ann:We have had a fun few days talking to Ron and Nan Deal. They have a new book out; and it has been very convicting, challenging, wonderful.

Dave:I feel like we’ve been about our marriage—

Ann:Me, too.

Dave:—even though we’re talking about your marriage.

Ann:Me, too.

Dave:I honestly think most our listeners are feeling the same thing. You are describing cycles: stuck-ness in our us-ness because of you-ness and me-ness.

Ann:It’s true. If you haven’t listened to the previous two episodes with them, go back; listen to those, because they’re so helpful. You’re going to identify with all of this. I think there’s not a person on the planet who does not need to be reminded of who they are in Christ; but also, our brokenness from the past affects who we are today. And in our relationships, it affects us.

We’ve been talking a lot about what this looks like in marriage: The Mindful Marriage. What does “mindful” mean? Why is it mindful?

Ron:Let me just read from the book:

Mindfulness is this idea that you’re very aware of what’s going on. Sometimes, you’ll say, “I’m mindful of my children and what’s going on with their day.” So you’re bearing in mind something about their life.

We’re using mindfulness to describe being very aware of myself, and what’s going on with me, in the midst of this marriage or our us-ness that I’m contributing to. Being mindful involves fully attending to what you are feeling, what you do with those feelings, and the impact they have on your marital us.

I think we know the pieces. One of the things this material has taught us is it’s putting the pieces together in a way that actually moves you from the worst of who you are—those moments, where you just sort of totally get discombobulated and lose yourself—that’s just terrible!

Dave:That never happens in our marriage.

Ron:We all do it; it’s the human experience.

Ann:—constantly.

Ron:“So how do I move away from that into the fruit of the Spirit, into being more like Christ?” And that’s the journey. Ultimately, this is all about discipleship more than it’s about marriage; and that’s why it’s a challenge, because it gets to the core of who we are.

Ann:So Ron and Nan, let’s say I am working on this. I am with Jesus. I’m realizing some of my pain from the past is definitely affecting our marriage. I’m into this—maybe, I’m getting therapy; I’m getting help—but my spouse doesn’t want to have anything to do with this; maybe, they’re not a believer; maybe, they think this is just a bunch of junk—but their actions are affecting our entire family, which then, let’s say that triggers me.

It makes me get so angry, resentful: “How do we not fall into that rut again?—because that’s our rut: “I’m working on it; you’re doing nothing.” Is there a way that we can solve this? Or how do I not [react] when he gets like that? Let’s say he triggers me by being resentful—like: “Oh, your mom’s saying all this junk again,” “Oh, she’s getting into the psychotherapy stuff.” How do we not fall into that rut? It just pulls us right in, and we get triggered by it.

Ron:Okay, so the book—

Nan:Well, first, let me say that is a hard space to be in for anybody, any relationship. And man, my heart goes out to that person, who’s listening, that’s there.

Ann:For sure.

Dave:And that’s real.

Nan:It’s so real.

Dave:And if you don’t navigate it well, you’re going to get divorced.

Ron:Yeah, being triggered never stops. We’ve just decided: “This side of heaven, it’s never going to stop.” We’re a whole lot better than we used to be, and we still get triggered; and we trigger one another. Those spaces still continue.

We use the word, “pain,”—but it’s really any disappointment, or hurt, or feeling unloved, feeling unsafe—those core issues to who we are. Whenever any of that gets tapped, you get triggered; it’s just the human experience. It’s learning to put on self-control in the midst of that pain; that is the hard part.

In a way, having a spouse who’s not joining you in a growing process, gives you lots of opportunity to practice. Now, that’s not—we say that tongue in cheek—but it it’s true as well. I mean, you have lots of opportunity to practice managing you, because you’re feeling things from the other person that tap into your pain. And so there’s going to be that.

What you can’t do is say: “So how do I also figure out how to change them?” As soon as you jump out of your lane—as Nan puts it: “Stay in your lane,”—as soon as you jump out of your lane, you’ve now gone into blame, shame, control, or escape.

Ann:Oh! We all try to change our spouse.

Ron:Yeah, absolutely. And here’s the thing—I believe this—you end up changing your us-ness; that’s the thing between you. By changing you, you change you; and it will change the dance. If you’ve been doing the rumba, as a couple, for a really long time, the minute you start doing the waltz—

Ann:—the ugly rumba.

,

Ron:The ugly—yeah, the rumble rumba—as soon as you start doing the waltz, rumba steps don’t make sense. It sort of requires the other person to make some adjustment. It doesn’t mean they’re going to be the person you’ve always dreamed they would be for you; it just means they can’t continue doing the rumba. It just doesn’t even make sense anymore. It will activate some measure of change within the relationship and, perhaps, within the other person. But you don’t get to control where that goes or what it looks like. The point is: as long as you keep doing the rumba, you’ll just keep doing the rumba as a couple; nothing changes at that point.

Let me stop for a minute. Just yesterday, I was reading Matthew 26. It’s Jesus being arrested; Jesus in the garden; Jesus before Pilate; Jesus, on and on, all the way up until the cross. I was watching all the other people, going on around Him: “What are they doing?” Jesus says to Peter, “You’re going to deny Me.” Think about that for a second—if Jesus said to you, “Dude, by the end of the day, you’re going to blow it,”—you’d be like, “No, no, no, no, no, no; I’m on guard. I’m not making that happen.”

Ann:—“especially, now that I’m aware.”

Ron:Exactly. So how is it that, by the end of the day, he does the exact thing?

Well, watch what happens: they start accusing him: “Oh, you were with this guy”; his level of threat is going up—the pain, if we could use that word in his life—is escalating rapidly. He got triggered; he went into fight, flight, freeze, control. He just escaped in denial; he got out of that whole thing. He was reacting in that moment—he was not in his right mind—he was not responding.

Ann:And before that, he was in the fight mode because he chopped off the ear.

Ron:So he does fight and flight in one chapter. Fascinating: total dysregulation. What about the other disciples?

Nan:—Control: “I’m going to take control of the situation.”

Ann:Yes.

Ron:The other disciples fall asleep over and over again; they’re escaping into sleep. Jesus is saying, “Stay alert.” And they’re like, “Yeah, we’re out.” Think about that for a second. But then, there’s Jesus—through all of it—He stays calm and self-regulated. When Peter’s pulling out the sword, He’s going, “Whoa, whoa, whoa; back in the sheath. No, we’re not doing that; that’s not what we’re about.” He doesn’t get caught up in the moment. He doesn’t get triggered because they’re triggered; He is totally within Himself.

This is the journey for a partner listening: “This is your task to work on you so much that, even though there’s chaos going on around you—accusations—Jesus got accusations in that chapter from people: “Are You sure?” “ Why don’t You stand up for yourself?”—all of it. He stays in self-control.

Ann:As you were saying all that, I’m thinking of moms, of young children, of teenagers. You talk about constantly being dysregulated and triggered—

Ron:That’s right.

Ann:—by your kids all day long. It’s in every area: this can work.

Ron:The first task of a parent is to be self-regulating in the midst of a dysregulated kid. That’s our first task, so we don’t end up just reacting to their reactions; that’s when we do things that we really regret. See, this is the human experience—so whether it’s a child or whether it’s a hard relationship—that’s still who we’re called to be.

Dave:So in some ways, you’re saying, “Be selfish”; what I mean by that is—

Ron:—in a good way.

Dave:I mean, we don’t want to be selfish, ever; we want to be selfless. But in some ways, we have to look to ourselves, and focus on me for a minute, to get me regulated so I can be better for us.

Ron: “Do your work.”

Nan:Exactly.

Ann:So what does that look like? We’ve talked about it for the last two days; but let’s go through specifically: “If you are being triggered by a child, by a spouse—if you’re being dysregulated, and you can find yourself falling into the old patterns that you’ve always done, the old dance—walk us through: ‘What do I need to do right then?’”

Dave:I mean, if you want, you can use me.

Ron:Okay.

Dave:We did the assessment. If you don’t know what I’m talking about, go to: FamilyLife.com/MindfulMarriage. There’s an assessment there that can help you see what you do when you’re dysregulated.

Yeah, I did it. My biggest one [coping reaction] is probably escape, but I have blame-escape: “It’s not my fault; it’s your fault,” “If I hadn’t married you…” “If I…”—whatever the way you just responded is—“It’s your fault.” It’s never my fault—you talk about pride—there’s pride. I’m not humble enough to even look in the mirror, and go, “No, I’m…”

And then, because of that—again, I’m making connections that, maybe, aren’t true—but I think, “Because of that, I escape.” I escaped into work—I’m a performer; I’ve been given some gifts, so I go use them: stand on a stage and play a guitar, or preach, or sports—a lot of what you did, Ron. I would run from Ann in our marriage, even my boys, into another world that: “You know what? Felt great!”; never even thought about us. But I could feel it as I pulled back into the driveway: “Here we go.”

Ron:Okay, so let’s chase the breadcrumbs: “You know what you do when you get triggered. What’s the pain behind being triggered?” You just sort of gave a clue there, when you said, “In one space, I feel really great about who I am, and what’s happening; and I get to excel, and I’m in my element.”

Nan:I’m hearing, “adequacy.”

Ron:There you go. “So what’s the pain behind that? What’s the thing you don’t have that you sort of want to escape from?”

Dave:I mean, I don’t feel worthy; I don’t feel seen. Again, you can connect it to: Dad walking out; brother dying when I was seven; divorced [parents]; alcohol [used by parents], all that.

Ron:Worthy is one of those elements of: “I don’t feel loved.” That’s really one of the things that helps us to feel like we’re important, and special, and loved; it’s connected there.

Dave:And I did it my whole life; I mean, Ann knows. I was raised by a single mom; my brother dies, so it’s just the two of us. I was never home; I don’t want to be home. Out there—man, I’m making 3-pointers; and I’m singing, and girls are going, “Wow!”—and I walk in my house, and my mom’s drinking. There’s nobody there: “I’ll see you later!” I get in the car, and I drive away again; I didn’t want to be there—escape.

Ron:Here’s what you do: the next time you have a moment, where you feel like Ann is not prioritizing you, not seeing you; and you’re just feeling sort of alone—you start saying, out loud, the four steps.

By the way, in The Mindful Marriage book, people are going to do exercises. You’re going to pinpoint your pain; what you do with it; and what the truth is. You’re going to learn this process for yourself—not for us, not Dave’s story, not Ron’s story—but your story. That’s really important, because everybody’s story is different.

So Step 1 is: “Say what you feel.” You’re going to say it out loud. For you, it would be a comment of: “I’m feeling”—and you can use the word—“inadequate”; “I’m feeling not seen”; “I’m feeling unworthy.”

Nan:—“unloved,” “unworthy.”

Ann:Let’s say you’re driving into the driveway—let’s put it into action.

Ron:You feel that anxiety come on: “Here it goes. I got to walk in and face something there.” Say it out loud: “What’s Step 1?”

Dave:“I feel not enough: I won’t be the husband she wants or the dad she needs. She’ll be disappointed in how I come in the house.”

Ron:Very good.

Number 2 is: “Say what you usually do with that: ‘And what I usually do is…’

Dave:“I will turn on the TV and watch sports,”—escape.

Ron:—escape into TV; or “Escape into an activity that gets me out of that

moment.”

Dave:I might grab my guitar, close the door, and play a song.

Ron:“Go to a place, where I do feel worthy.”

Nan:“Get in the car and go perform somewhere else.”

Ron:Yeah; okay, so let’s just pause for a second. Here’s the reflection that Nan and I have had, about this process: once you know Steps 1 and 2—this is your old self; this is the thing that is so automatic in your brain: you never think about it; you never choose it. You never say, “You know what? I think I’m going to escape into TV right now, because I’m feeling inadequate”; it is neurological in your body.

What’s so humbling about this is that you go, “But I’m an educated, learned person. I’m a pretty sophisticated guy. I’ve got degrees, and I know better than that.” Now, if you sat me down, and said, “Now, is this God’s truth for your life?” You’d say, “No, that’s stupid. I don’t want to live that way.” And yet, you will do it every time you feel that pain; because it is in you. This is why, in Romans 7, Paul says, “Why do I keep on doing the things I don’t want to do?” There is reactivity in him—he’s not thinking—it just happens. That’s Steps 1 and 2; there’s not much hope in 1 and 2, which is why we need 3 and 4.

Ann:Let me go to my 1 and 2 to see how—

Dave:Yeah; let’s go to hers!

Ann: —that bounces off of each other.

Ron:Yeah! Oh, good.

Nan:—your us-ness.

Ann:Let’s say Dave walks in the door, and he turns on the TV. There’s three kids in the house: five, three, and a newborn.

Ron:Say your pain: “What do I feel?”

Ann:I am so angry, first of all. I’m so angry because—

Dave:—you’re alone.

Ann:That would be it: “I am alone.” But I would blame; I would shift into my

blame, normally, and say, “I do everything!”

Nan:But stay with your feelings.

Ann:Yeah, I know. I’m saying this is where—this is how I would fall back into my old rut—”I do everything,” “He doesn’t see me.” But if it was feelings: “I’m not loved,” “I feel unloved,” “I feel not worthy.”

Ron:Okay, I’m going to help you refine that;—

Dave:—“…not important.”

Ron:—because in the book, you learn that anger—yes, it’s a painful feeling—but it’s actually something you do. Shame is something you feel, but it’s something you do to yourself. Anger is something you do to somebody else; it’s a form of/in the blame category. There’s a number of ways we do these things.

Let me just encourage you: “I blame,” “I criticize,” and “I get angry,”—that’s what you do—that’s Step 2. Step 1 is: “I feel unloved.” So just say those fresh.

Ann:Yeah; “I feel totally unloved.”

Dave:She added: “totally—not just a little—completely unloved.”

.

Ron:And what I typically do—by the way—Rule 1 is: “Don’t help your spouse do their steps.”

Nan:Yes, that’s right.

Ron:Because that dysregulates the process. So say that again: “I feel unloved,” and “Here here’s what I do with it…”

Ann:“I feel totally unloved,” and “Here’s what I do with it: I blame and I control.”

Ron:Okay. Alright, so we got Steps 1 and 2 for both of you.

Step 3 is: “God’s capital ‘T’ truth that speaks directly to the pain in Step 1.” This is where it takes a little work. We guide people, in the book, through the process of saying: “So from God’s point of view, and objectively: ‘What is really true?’”

“Ann, is it true that I’m inadequate?”—Dave.

“Is it true that I’m unloved, totally unloved? That if I stop and think about Dave, and his walk with me, and our us-ness; does he love me? It’s just that, in this moment, I don’t feel loved.”

So there’s this stepping back from it, to say, “In this moment, I don’t feel it. But if I look at the grand scope of our life, I definitely can see that [truth].”

And it’s not just about him. This is more about you—separate and apart, from what Dave has done—“God loves me; I know I got that going for me,” “Am I a capable person?”—this is often the hardest part, where it’s like, “Do I feel like I can even be lovable?” You want your voice speaking into that, not just Dave’s voice. In fact, it’s more importantly your voice than his. And for you: “I felt that as a kid; I didn’t feel like I was good enough and nobody cared. But am I a person of worth, and dignity, and adequacy; and can I see that about myself? Can I join God in what He says about me?”

Ann:I think that’s a big component:—

Ron:Say that over myself.

Ann:—”Can I join God in what He says about me?”

Ron:That’s so important; it’s not enough that you know God says this about you. We all read that in the Bible all the time. But we live life as if it’s not true, because it’s my voice that’s the biggest voice in my head.

Dave:Now, what if—we’re talking about us—and in many ways, we are good-willed people. We’re not trying to hurt each other.

Ron:Yes, that’s exactly right.

Dave:So we’re trying to work this out.

But what if you’re sitting with a couple; and he’s—or she’s—verbally or physically abusing. So you’re saying, “Are you loved?” And she’s like, “No. Every day he tells me I’m…”—it’s terrible words;—

Ann:—or “He hits me.”

Dave:—or he may hit her. “And I’m supposed to do…”—what do you say to that

couple?

Ron:Well, first of all, we believe this process will help you to see the dignity, worth, and value that you have that your husband is not showing you. And so we actually think you’re going to pursue safety more quickly. When you know your capital “T” Truth, you’re no longer going to go, “Yeah, I just think, if I work a little harder, than he’ll be nice.” You’re going to give up on that little piece, because it’s never going to work. So please hear us now: “We want you to pursue safety:—

Nan:—“safety.”

Dave: And that’s physical safety: “Get out.”

Ron:—”physical safety; that’s number one. Nothing’s going to change in your relationship as long as you’re subjected to that same old scenario.

I don’t know what that means. I don’t know that it means fleeing, in the middle of the night; but it certainly means telling somebody, who can help bring some guidance and some outside objectivity to this process, rather than you continually trying to figure out what you can do to fix the relationship. That has not worked yet; it will never work. We never want anybody to hear us say, “Yeah, yeah; you’re stuck. Just keep working on you.”

No, no, no; physical safety is an absolute must, because it’s forcing the other person to acknowledge that they’re doing something that’s wrong; that’s not “love, honor, and cherish,” which is what they said they would do. That’s blame, control, and manipulate; so there needs to be some accountability to that process.

Dave:Yeah, that’s good.

So when we get to Step 3—and we are able to wrap our mind around Truth, big “T”: “Who I am in Christ: I am worthy.”

Ron:And you’re claiming it for yourself. It’s not just what Christ says, but you’re claiming that—you’re owning—

Dave:You’re believing it.

Ron:—you’re saying, “I’m believing it.”

Ann:And you’re saying—even yesterday, I liked that you guys said—“Sometimes, just do it out loud. Do your work out loud.”

Ron:By the way, all this stuff we’re doing right now, you’re going to do, out loud, when he walks in and sits down in front of the TV.

Ann:Okay, say what I should do.

Ron:So let’s keep going real quick—Step 3 is—“What would your step 3 be?”

Ann:Big “T” Truth—I think it would be—”I am seen,” “I am loved,” and “I am worthy,” and “It doesn’t depend on Dave’s actions.”

Ron:Wow! See—I even see the emotion that brings to you—just even saying that. See how deep that touches?

Ann:Yes!

Ron:This speaks to stuff that is very important and real that impacts you at a visceral level in life.

Ann:And I like the idea of thinking it in my mind; but there’s something, too, when you then say it—

Ron:—out loud.

Ann:—it brings more freedom.

Dave:I mean, some of that emotion is connected to: we’ve been carrying these bags for decades;—

Nan:I think so.

Dave:—maybe, our whole life.

Nan:I think so.

Dave:And now, we’re starting to—well, actually, Jesus is cutting—

Ann:He already did.

Dave:—the shame.

Ron:And now, you’re embracing what Jesus is offering you.

Ann:Yes.

Ron:So what’s your Step 3?

Dave:“I am worthy,” “I am adequate,” “I’m a good man,” “I’m a good husband,” “I’m a good dad,” “I can do this.”

Ron:And keep in mind that’s in the moment—that’s even in the face of a look from her, that says, “You’re not enough for me right now,”—you’re claiming this for yourself.

Step 4 is where it gets real: “So if that is true, here’s how I’m going to act in this moment. I normally am escaping into TV, or an activity that I can excel in; but in this moment, I’m choosing—instead of going away from her—perhaps, it’s moving toward her. Perhaps it’s I’m going to act with the adequacy that I have, and take agency over my life, and do something.” I don’t know what that is; do you have a sense of that?

Dave:Yeah. I mean, I immediately think—again, I think when our boys were little—they’re not now; well, even now with grandkids: “Engage.”

Ron:Exactly; “Engage.”

,

Dave:“Walk in the kitchen; engage. Don’t even turn on a TV.” Literally, “What do you need? How can I help?” “Pick up one of the grandkids,” “Run out in the backyard; play with them.”

Ron:And the standard of what you’re going to do is not what you think she wants you to do; but it’s what you feel like you can do—as a person of worth, value, and dignity—has something to offer.

Nan:Something I tell myself is, I say, “What’s one of the fruits of the Spirit I can do right now?

Ann:That’s good.

Nan:“What’s one that needs to come to light? Is it patience? Is it self-control with my mouth?” I also find that, if I can just pray in the moment, for what God can do in me and show me; because sometimes, I’m not seeing it. I need to see that truth; and then, I’m going to pick up a fruit of the Spirit.

Ron:Yeah. We like to say: “If you don’t have anything else, you know can always do a fruit of the Spirit.” That could be Step 4 if you don’t have anything else.

Nan:—or Corinthians 13; I mean, “What is love?” God calls us to all of that: it’s not a record of wrongs, but it’s patience and kindness…

Ann:I think, too, it’s important—maybe, especially for me, as a woman—that this isn’t dependent/my next step isn’t dependent on my feelings. I can say all those things, and it’s almost like I’m training my brain. So to do the next thing is an act of my will, not necessarily an emotion that I feel.

Ron:For you, what would that look like?—Step 4.

Ann:It would be to go greet Dave, and to welcome him in; instead of: “What?! Why is the TV on? We’ve got a lot of things going on right now!” Instead of blaming; it would be to welcome him, and to love him; maybe, just to hug him.

Ron:And now, that you’ve unpacked this in front of one another; maybe, you know a little bit more about the other person. So in that moment, you might be able to see—if he’s retreating—you might be able to actually see, “Oh, he’s feeling inadequate; he’s feeling the ‘I’m not enough thing.’” At some point, probably not in the beginning; but eventually, you might actually be able to move toward that part of him rather than the part of you that’s feeling the pain.

Ann:Right. And I know that, when I am not blaming or shaming—I’m joyful; I’m free—I know that’s what draws Dave to me.

Ron:So let’s put this all together. I don’t know how much time we have; maybe, we could streamline this. Imagine you’re in with the grandkids; and Dave walks in, and he says, “Hey!”; and then, he plops in front of the TV, and turns it on. All of this stuff hits—boom, boom, boom, boom—he’s feeling what he’s feeling before he walked in. You’re feeling that, in response to the TV thing.

And instead of doing what you used to do, one of you goes first—doesn’t matter who it is—and says, out loud, the four steps; that you just say, out loud, in front of the other person’s presence and awareness, all four of those things. Go through the motions; but then, also imagine, “How would you react or respond to the other person if they did that? How would it’s a change for you?”

Ann:That’s a great question. “Oh, you’re so…”; I would be in awe.

Ron:So imagine he sits down, plops in front of the TV. You walk in; you see that. You feel the trigger—trigger’s not going to go away—trigger’s there. And you go: “I know what this is…”; say your pain and what you normally do.

Ann:“I am feeling unloved when you do that, and I know that. What I would usually do is blame you and get angry.”

Ron: Good.

Ann:“But what I want to do is invite you in: ‘I’m so happy that you’re home.’”

Ron:Good. And if she said that, out loud, rather than what she normally does,—

Dave:I’d probably pick her up and carry her around the kitchen.

Ron:Yeah; it gets a little bit easier to move to order, doesn’t it?

Dave:I would be ecstatic.

Ron:Yeah.

Dave:I’m joking, but there would be life coming to my soul. And again, it’s not based on her;—

Ron:Exactly.

Dave:—but it would bring life.

Ron:And let’s say you could just go through your four steps. You’d have life; you’d move toward; and you’d go, “Yeah, and you know what? The reason I came in and sat down is because I’m not feeling adequate; I feel like I don’t belong. What I usually do is just escape; I know that’s what that was; that was escape. The truth is: I’m learning my agency. I’m learning this about me. I’m starting to claim what God’s telling me about myself. And man, I do want to move toward you; I want to move toward our grandkids. What can I do?”

Dave:Exactly.

Ron:The point is: as each of you takes responsibility for you—your worst self, the worst part of you—and changing that into something new, it does feed your us-ness. It doesn’t fix everything right away, and there’s often resentment and pain left over from the past; because this has happened more than once. But at least, it’s moving toward newness that both of you feel is fresh and gives you a wind.

Nan:And what I want to say to the listener is: “Didn’t it feel a little clunky, at first, doing this?”

Ann:Yeah, for sure.

Nan:It takes practice; it does. It took a good—I would say three months—for me to find out who I was, what my pain was, what I truly do in my pain, what the truth is, and what I’m going to walk out with God in the truth. I would write those out and journal about those, but I would also say them out loud. And then, I went to Ron with them. It’s clunky at first; and some people give up on it, too soon, because it’s hard work. But stick with it.

Ron:Here’s the final word: renewing your mind is not just renewing your thoughts or renewing your consciousness. Renewing your mind is neurological. This process—the brain science says—you do this over, and over, and over again. Repeat it 50 times, in a moment of being triggered, and you actually rewire synapses in your brain; and create new pathways that, instead of reacting out of old pain, react out of new truth. That is amazing!

Ann:That is spiritual.

Ron:God is not just renewing your thoughts, He’s renewing your brain!

Ann:And that’s what God can do.

Dave:That’s what he does.

Nan:Amen.

Dave:We said it every day so far; but I think it’s impossible, without the power of God, to do this.

Nan:Exactly.

Dave:You got to surrender. And we said it yesterday, too: “You can’t have pride and do this.” “I don’t want to do it; I want to blame her,”—that’s pride.

Ron:That’s right.

Dave:That’s: “I’m not wrong; you’re wrong.” To be humble enough to say, “I’ve got work to do. This whole marriage could be better if I would do the work, and I can’t do it without Jesus”; so it’s like those two things together.

But man, oh man, let me say this: if you’re listening, and going,

“Okay, I want to start right now,” here’s how you start: go to FamilyLife.com/MindfulMarriage; take the assessment. It’s all in the book, and we’ll send you the book; just send a donation to FamilyLife; become a financial partner with us. We will send you The Mindful Marriage as a gift to you for being a blessing to us. It will be a blessing to you. You can do that at FamilyLifeToday.com. Or you can call us at 800-358-6329. That’s 800-F as in Family, L as in Life, and then the word, TODAY.

Man, you guys have been awesome. Thank you.

Ann:Thanks, Ron and Nan.

Nan:Thank you.

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