The Parental Anxiety Struggle is Real: David & Meg Robbins

David: What can be paralyzing when you are a young couple [thinking], “Do we want to have kids or not?” is when you say, “I need to be fully prepared now,” or “We need to start a five-year plan to get prepared.” Way to be well-meaning and intentional!

Meg: Right.

David: At the same time, it’s really [asking], “How are you bringing Jesus into current surrender in your own life?” That’s what’s preparing you the most.

Shelby: Welcome to FamilyLife Today, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I’m Shelby Abbott, and your hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson. You can find us at FamilyLifeToday.com.

Ann: This is FamilyLife Today!

Dave: Let’s talk parenting today.

Ann: Let’s do!

Dave: You know, we wrote a book called No Perfect Parents, but we actually have two perfect parents in the studio.

David: Oh!

Ann: We do, don’t we?

Meg: Please!

David: They are sitting right here.

Ann: We have all the answers right here.

David: Wow, guys. That’s the worst set up of all time. I say that out loud.

Dave: David and Meg Robbins; if you don’t recognize their voices, that’s who you are hearing.

David: There you go! Good to be back.

Dave: Welcome back to FamilyLife.

David: Good to be here, guys.

Meg: Always glad to be here.

Dave: It is interesting. We are at empty nest stage, as you know, and, actually, have been there—

Ann: —a while.

Dave: —quite a while. [Laughter] You guys are right in the thick of it with a senior, ready to head off to college.

David: Yes.

Meg: That’s true.

Dave: We’ve got two different perspectives on parenting, so I think this could be a really good discussion.

Ann: We’re going to talk about parent panic, not that any of us ever panicked as parents. [Laughter]

Dave: Do you feel any panic even right now, or can you talk about days where you did, or is it always constant?

Meg: Yes, and yes. [Laughter] I mean, I probably feel that more than you, I think. I’m a pretty steady person, which is funny, but I think when it comes to—

Dave: —is she steady, David?

David: I was attracted to her because of this mysterious, stable security Meg has and does live out. Yet, one of the things that gets wrapped around the axle is parenting.

Meg: It’s true.

David: And when it does get challenging—

Meg: I think because it’s not about me and my life, as much as it is other people. I can be really hard on myself, or worried that I’ve missed things, or feeling a little panicky about things. Panic is a strong word, so maybe I don’t feel panicky.

David: There are nights that you stay up saying, “We’re wounding our kids forever.”

Meg: That’s true.

Ann: Oh, absolutely!

David: And you play the tape of—

Meg: We are—let’s be honest. [Laughter] The thing is that we were shaped by our parents. And my parents are awesome, but there are things about growing up that shape you, even things that were meant for good; where I fell in the line up of being the youngest. I know that there are things that we are saying or doing that are impacting and shaping our kids.

Sometimes, it’s just really hard for me to let go of those things, [and] let it be what God wants it to be and trust. That’s a trust issue, ultimately.

Ann: Exactly.

I think what’s happening now, more and more in this younger generation coming up, [is] they’ve watched their parents really struggle in their own marriages. As these kids are getting married, and now they are about to have a family, they can get a little panicky, too, wondering, “Should we even do this? Should we have kids?” 

David and Meg: Yes.

Dave: Which causes them to wait.

Ann: Yes!

Dave: They’re having kids older now.

Ann: That’s a whole other kind of panic.

Meg: Right.

Ann: There is a large group of people that are struggling with this. They’re asking a lot of questions about it: “Should we even have kids, because I’m kind of messed up and my parents were messed up? Do I want to mess up another generation? It looks like culturally our world is messed up.”

David: Sure.

Ann: So, you can understand how that would create this panic in their hearts about having a family.

Meg: Right.

David: The fear wells up. You know, we worked with 20-somethings in New York City.

Ann: Did they feel this?

David: We definitely saw some of this. We definitely, first of all, saw people waiting to get married. There was no rush, if you were dating someone you loved, to get married. “Let’s see how this goes and make sure.” But then, as a result, you get access to so much information.

Ann: Yes.

David: In a beautiful way, people are getting in touch with their stories and how they got shaped and the wounds that shaped them that get passed on to the next generation. I think that’s a uniqueness of this generation: that those things together really do bring some concern. It can lead to fear, and, maybe for some, panic.

I don’t know if there was hesitancy as much as the weightiness of “When?” and “Should we?” There was a lot more to discern there rather than, “Hey, let’s jump in after two to five years!” It’s a different conversation.

Ann: Yes.

Dave: When you jumped in—again, how many years ago? Your oldest is 17 years, right?

David: Seventeen years ago, yes. We had a miscarriage, and then he was born five years into our marriage.

Dave: Our first was six years in. I felt—I wonder what you guys felt—completely unprepared. Part of it was [that] I came from a broken home [and] never really had dad. So, I remember looking at his crib—CJ—and literally praying: “God, I have no idea what to do. I’m going to mess this kid up. Help me!”

Obviously, your experience was a little different, but did you feel unprepared?

David: In one way, we both come from parents [with] loving households; both parents were really involved. One of our biggest conflicts in marriage has been—our pre-marriage counselor told us this: “The great thing for you and the really hard thing is you both have parents who really care and will be involved.” [Laughter] “Holidays, those are always going to be a challenge.” It’s been a beautiful challenge gift, you know?

Meg: True.

David: Praise God; not everyone has that. On the other side, even with great models, because they both were great models—even with great models—I’d never changed a diaper. I had certainly never parented with someone else. That infant space for me felt [like], “Can we just fast forward to the nine-month part where I can make him laugh?” I totally felt unprepared.

Meg: I grew up babysitting. I was the youngest, but I did babysit a lot. I felt comfortable with some of those physical realities of babies being around, but there’s really nothing like the responsibility of raising a child. It’s really different when you are babysitting, and you are there for a few hours, than when you are completely responsible for this little, tiny human and all the years ahead that come with it.

Ann: Yes.

Meg: So, I think, for sure, that was exciting but overwhelming, even though we had great role models.

David: With our first, we jumped into it, and he has a chronic lung disease. He couldn’t gain weight for six weeks until he got medicine.

Ann: Yes. Some people would say, “And that’s why I’m not sure I want to get into this.”

David: Exactly.

Meg: Right.

David: Yes, I [would say], “Okay, here’s what’s true: century after century, God designed this as one of the best gifts; that you would tell your children and your children’s children who God is, and that your marriage would somehow be an imperfect yet beautiful reflection to the next generation of how God relates.”

It is imperfect, and our kids are going to have plenty to process with counselors someday; yet that’s part of how God designed it. He redeems the [incomplete] places. He’s always going to be faithful to point a perfect picture of a perfect Father to the next generation. He will redeem areas that are incomplete in the way I raised them.

Century after century, decade after decade, year after year, God’s faithful to keep pointing people to Him. We are doing the best we can. It’s not going to be a perfect job. Yet I think the thrilling adventure of being part—we’re not the main character in the story; Jesus is! And we get to be a part of what He put into play of creating the next generation to live and to carry who He is forward.

There are no guarantees in life! That’s one of the hardest things about trusting Him; yet we get to participate in a small way in how He’s been working generations before us. We get to participate in His redemption of our lineage. But you go through the Bible, and there was a lot of imperfect stuff happening!

Ann: Yes.

David: Yet, He’s faithful to keep shaping. Most of us would say, “Dave, you didn’t have a dad in the picture. Yet, God redeemed, and you’re thankful to be alive to pass something on to the next generation with your kids and your grandkids. We’re not in the grandkids phase, but seeing you guys (Dave and Ann) relate to your grandkids is such a beautiful thing.

Yes, it’s overwhelming. It will take more than it gives.

Ann: But talk about the “but” part. What if you had never had—

David: —exactly.

Ann: —what you have now, how would you describe it to someone? Because it’s hard to come up with words, isn’t it?

Meg: That’s true.

David: One of the biggest “buts,” I would say, is: I would not be shaped in the image of Jesus, His number one thing that He has for us. He has used parenting, probably more than anything else—

Ann: —yes!

Meg: —without a doubt.

David: Marriage may compete in there, but probably parenting more than anything else to shape me more and more into the image of His likeness, and to get the character and heart of God. It takes you to the end of yourself, but that’s what trusting God is.

Meg: Certainly, there are hard things that come with parenting, and investing in our kids, and the fears or panicky things, but you just love them to the max all the time. And yes, do they sometimes drive us crazy?

Ann: Yes.

Meg: Yes, but the things that we give up for them, the things we do for them without even thinking about it, [are] because that is how God made us to love them.

Certainly, there are times where I have to look to Him. [Laughter] Like David said, it has been the most transformational thing in my life, without a doubt; just coming to the end of myself over and over, whether it’s exhaustion in those early years where I have not slept in many nights, and “I didn’t know if I can make it another night!” But I was at the end of myself, and God gave me the strength I needed. Not the night before; He gives it to me in that moment.

Or in the teenage years, when I don’t know what to do in a certain situation, and I’m at a loss. I pray, “Okay Lord, I need Your wisdom and discernment,” and He shows up so faithfully.

David: No matter what area of life it is, and we’re talking about the potential of having kids, God gives you grace for the story He starts writing in your life.

I think of a young couple out there who are discerning, “Lord, do you want us to open this category up or not?” He can write the story. Sometimes, you may get to the point where you agree, “We don’t know if we’re ready, but let’s open up the process of allowing Him to write the story.”

There are also couples, I know, [who] are ready and may be listening to this and are struggling with infertility and [saying], “This isn’t fair! I’m so ready.”

Meg: Yes.

David: He’s writing that story, too. It’s a really tender place. We get to trust Him for the grace tomorrow, whether that’s a longing for a kid and you are struggling with infertility, or “Let’s see what God does. If He gives us a kid, He will give us grace and wisdom and truth for that day, but not before.”

It's our lot that He gives us in that moment, and He will be with us. That’s His promise.

Ann: That’s good.

Dave: Let’s talk about when you decide to have children, and God blesses you, and then you are—and a lot of our listeners will relate to this; you want to raise them to be Christ followers.

Meg: Yes.

Dave: More than Christ followers! Fully-devoted, sold-out men and women of God when they are men and women.

Ann: —but they haven’t had a model.

Dave: Yes, like me, I came in, and I thought, “That’s what I want. I’ve never seen it.” And I thought, “I can’t do it. I don’t know exactly what that looks like.”

I think a lot of our listeners are [thinking], “Okay, I’m there.” You can get books and watch videos. Hopefully, you’re listening to FamilyLife Today every single day, three times a day. [Laughter] But how would you encourage a couple, saying, “I want to pass on something that I didn’t get,” or, maybe, “I did get [it], but I still have the panic or the fear of ‘I’m not sure how to pass this on’.”

Take us into the Robbins family. How did you guys do this?

David: The very first thing that comes to my mind, and we can go beyond this, but it’s worth saying first: if you respond in faith and repentance often before Jesus with stuff you’ve got going on in your own life, you’re going to be a great model of a parent.

People are caught more than they’re taught. They’re going to see a mom or a dad who has a soft heart toward Jesus and repents, and then trusts in faith for the next thing and knows how to trust God for things bigger than themselves. Okay, you’re ready. If you are cultivating that lifestyle now, that’s a huge part of it.

You go beyond modeling, absolutely, but it’s an active relationship with Jesus; faith and repentance, faith and repentance; growing with Him. That goes a long way.

Meg: I’m sure we picked this up from other people around us. For us, it was people who were a little bit ahead in parenting and asking, “What are they doing with their kids?”

David: That’s good.

Meg: I remember starting that habit of, every night, we would read a Bible story, sing songs, and pray together. That lasted for a long time. All the kids shared a room for a long time. That helped it to be more of a family thing.

Different stages look really different. There are times when I can feel like, “This has changed, and this is sad. I feel like we’re dropping the ball that this isn’t happening the same.” Sometimes, it’s when they get older, it’s more showing up in those conversations.

One of our kids likes to come in at 11 or 11:30 and process things at night. I think, “I really wanted to turn the light off 30 minutes ago.” But being available; what does it look like to listen? Sometimes, just listening [and] other times, it’s [saying], “Okay, let’s pray about that,” or “Have you thought about—what do you think the Lord thinks?” Just asking questions sometimes.

David: There is a lot of content help like listening to FamilyLife Today.

Ann: Yes!

David: But I love where you started there, Meg: looking to other people, who you trust around you, who are a little step ahead—

Ann: —me, too.

David: —still in it. But the community that we had when I think about those early years, man, it was very simple. Getting pizza on a Friday night with a family that was one step ahead was a lifeline. Those little moments would carry us toward intentionality and toward survival in a beautiful way. I’m so grateful for the community that we had.

Ann: That friendship and, really, discipleship, I feel like, is critical.

Meg: Yes.

David: What can be paralyzing, when you are thinking about this if you are a young couple, thinking, “Do we want to have kids or not?” and all the ramifications of it, we play fast forward, and we say, “I need to be fully prepared now,” or “We need to start a five-year plan to get prepared.” [Laughter] Way to be well-meaning and intentional.

Meg: Right.

David: At the same time, it’s really [asking], “What are you doing in your own story and journey? How are you bringing Jesus into current surrender in your own life?” That’s what’s preparing you the most.

You are not going to ladder up all the content to be prepared for stages zero through two and two through five. There is going to be help out there. Pursuing community—that’s a big one! Yet you don’t want to be flippant about it. At the same time, you’re walking with God, you are surrendering parts of your story; you can take this next step of faith.

Ann: What if a couple is—their marriage isn’t that great right now.

David: Oh, good one.

Ann: Maybe they’re just struggling a little bit, and they’re thinking, “Should we [have children]? My parents got divorced when they were ten years in. Is that going to happen to us? Should we attempt to have children if we’re struggling still?”

Dave: This is sort of biographical, because we were struggling. My parents were divorced, so [we thought], “Should we?”

David: Well, Dave, what would you say first?

Dave: What you said earlier (or maybe both of you said it): “God will give you grace in the moment. He will give you grace in the moment.”

We knew—and part of it was FamilyLife’s teaching over the years in those days and still is—that God wanted us to have kids. We believed it was God’s plan for a Christian couple [to say], “Let’s multiply and fill the earth.” So, we knew that wasn’t a question. We both agreed, “Let’s do this. We don’t know when.” Then [we thought], “We’re not ready.” You said it earlier: we’re never ready. You’re never going to be ready!

Meg: Right.

Dave: God gave us grace in the moment. Actually, our marriage survived; actually, it thrived, even though we were yelling at each other at night and getting up in the middle of the night to change diapers. It was all as hard as it could be, and like you said earlier, God developed our character in it, and God enabled us—two flawed human beings—to raise some remarkable young men, who married remarkable young women, who now have remarkable grandkids.

If you would look at our family tree on a piece of paper, you would say, “This isn’t going to come out well.” [Laughter] But God stepped in and said, “But God…I’m going to change the legacy.” So, that’s my first thought: trust Him. 

Ann: Which doesn’t mean—we still failed our kids. They’ve come to us and said, “These are the things that really hurt us,” so it was not like it was a perfect picture.

David: Right.

Ann: But yes, that makes them have to trust and hope in Jesus.

Meg: Exactly. I’ve tried to, when I’m thinking through things like this, major life decisions or little things, I don’t want fear to be the thing that keeps me from saying “Yes” to the Lord.

Dave: Right!

Ann: Yes.

Meg: Joshua 1:9, “Be strong and courageous. Do not be afraid—

Ann: —“do not be afraid”—

Meg: —”because I’m with you wherever you go.” [Emphasis added]

You said it a minute ago, Ann. It’s like surrender: “Lord, I don’t want to say ‘No’ to this because I am afraid. I want to have faith that will say, ‘I trust what You are calling us to’.”

Yes, having kids is the thing that has helped us work through a lot more of the stuff we needed to get to the bottom of in our own hearts and in our marriage. I don’t think we’re going to get to the point where we feel like, “We were really killing it! We’ve got this. Now we’re ready.”

Dave: It’s interesting that you are talking about kids, because—Meg, you don’t know this, but—one of our sons said this in a sermon, or maybe in our family room, because he’s a preacher. I’ll never forget him saying this—I thought, “I’m learning from my son right now.” He said, “Every decision made in fear is a bad decision.”

Meg: Wow!

Dave: It was a simple thought. I thought, “Is there any exception to that? There has to be?” I thought, “I think there is no exception.” Any decision made in fear is a bad decision, especially when you know there is a big God who is over all of it, and we don’t have to be afraid.

Meg: Amen.

Dave: Make that decision not in fear, and it will be the right decision.

David: I think, back to the couple you [mentioned] in the question, Ann, about if we are not in a good place in our marriage: I will say, I have seen some couples say, “Let’s have a kid, and that will help us in our disconnection.” I don’t know if that’s the right approach.

Dave: That’s not a good decision.

David: But on the question, I say, “Alright, are you both seeking to forgive frequently? Are you both seeking outside help? Are there healthy components, even if the dashboard is showing ‘caution,’ because you feel like it’s a season that’s hard?” Because sometimes there are hard seasons.

Dave: Yes.

David: But if you are actively taking those types of steps of [saying], “There’s confession in my life. I’m pursuing the Lord. I may not feel really near to Him. but I’m pursuing Him. There are friends in my life, so I’m not isolated. We’re getting counsel for some of the things we’re walking through.”

That’s a lot of real-life stuff. I don’t think that’s a reason to say, “No;” to put a hold on having kids. Now, there would be certain situations, obviously, that if there are some real issues to work through first, then that’s important. I would certainly never use kids as an escape to stay together.

Ann: Or any kind of abusive situation going on in your marriage.

David: Absolutely. Face those things first. But if it is: “We just feel kind of stuck, and we’re not at our best,” [then ask] “Are there rhythms in our life pointing toward that trajectory still?” “We’re pursuing Jesus still; this is a just a season.” That’s very different than [where] there is abuse, or anger is taking root in a way that’s controlling our home. It’s important to differentiate those two.

Pulling back up; just getting to the balcony of the conversation here, I do think of Psalm 127: “Behold, children are heritage from the Lord, the fruit of the womb is a reward.” [Psalm 127:3] It is a great reminder: don’t take counsel of your fears. Kids are a gift.

Dave: Yes.

David: Yes, it will stretch you, but that’s part of trusting God. You get to be stretched from a place that will envelop you into God’s love, and you will understand more about God’s love for you, because you end up being this extension of: “I can’t believe I love this little human so much, even when this little human is driving me crazy.” [Laughter] You get glimpses of who God is and His character and love toward you. 

Shelby: God will often use the difficult things in our lives to help mold and shape us into someone who is more like Jesus. Like David just said, we get to be a physical extension of God’s love and care to our kids by being moms and dads. What a great way to not only care for other human beings, but get to know God more in the process.

I’m Shelby Abbott, and you’ve been listening to Dave and Ann Wilson with David and Meg Robbins on FamilyLife Today.

Dave and Ann Wilson have written a book called No Perfect Parents. It’s really a way to discover that you don’t have to be perfect to be a parent. In fact, whatever this “perfect parent” myth is, [it] should be eradicated; because Dave and Ann give us some great biblical insight, and they talk about their own experiences in this book, [and] also give practical advice and share real life stories that resonate with every parent.

This book can really help you to understand that you need to ditch some of the expectations you have as a parent, embrace reality, and discover how God can change your parenting.

You can get your copy of No Perfect Parents by Dave and Ann Wilson by going online right now to FamilyLifeToday.com or clicking on our link in the show notes. Or feel free to give us a call and request your copy. Our number is 800-358-6329; again, that number is 800-“F” as in family, “L” as in life, and then the word, “TODAY.”

You know what? We’re not perfect parents; we’re also not perfect spouses. Sometimes, we need to be reminded of that and encouraged to be better spouses; to grow closer with our wife or husband and, at the same time, grow closer with God.

The FamilyLife Weekend to Remember^® marriage getaway is exactly the place that you can do that. Right now, if you register by September 16^th, you can get 50 percent off. That’s right: two registrations for the price of one. You can find a location that suits you and a time that will work well at FamilyLifeToday.com and click on the Weekend to Remember banner.

Now, coming up tomorrow, David and Meg are going to be back with Dave and Ann Wilson to talk about strategies and practical tips for managing stress during the back-to-school season. That’s coming up tomorrow. We hope you’ll join us.

On behalf of Dave and Ann Wilson, I’m Shelby Abbott. We will see you back next time for another edition of FamilyLife Today.

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