When Parenting = Anxiety: David & Meg Robbins

Dave: Hey! Before we get started today, I have to read you a comment that came in from one of our listeners. She said, “I realized, listening today, that it was shame that I’ve been feeling my whole life. This broadcast just nailed it on the head. I’ve spent my whole life trying to find love and acceptance. After hearing this show, it just made so much sense: God does love me. When Ann said the line, ‘You’re already loved,’ I cried. I said, ‘That’s for me! I’m already loved’.”

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David: When they are avoiding you or something; they’re withdrawing to their room unusually or any other way; or escaping, they are getting really into something over the top or some new thing they are getting consumed with, that, often, can point to the fact that there’s so much going on, anxiety-wise, churning beneath them, that they are running to something that they can control somehow.

Shelby: Welcome to FamilyLife Today, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I’m Shelby Abbott, and your hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson. You can find us at FamilyLifeToday.com.

Ann: This is FamilyLife Today!

Dave: So, there are a lot of parents doing something this month that we don’t have to do any more.

Ann: And these parents can be happy, or sad, or filled with anxiety, because there’s a lot going on.

Dave: Yes, we’re talking about—

Ann: —school starting!

Dave: —getting their kids ready for school, whether it’s toddlers, or high schoolers, or middle schoolers. Those days were stressful!

Ann: Very stressful. And I think we underestimate how stressful they are for the kids, as well.

Dave: Yes. Well, we don’t have to do it anymore, but we’ve got a couple in the studio who, literally, are doing this right now. David and Meg Robbins are back.

David: Fun to be here, guys. We love being at the table with y’all! [Laughter]

Ann: We have so much fun with you.

Dave: So, are you guys doing this? I mean, you’ve got three now in school? And the fourth one is off to college.

Ann: And one in college!

David: I think the oldest starting freshman year in college may be the most back-to-school anxiety we’ve had, at least.

Ann: Yes!

Meg: It’s a whole new chapter. Yes, then we have one in elementary; two in high school.

Dave: Wow!

David: One starting high school in ninth grade.

Meg: Yes!

Ann: That poses a lot of stress on the family—a lot of excitement, but do you think it can be stressful for the kids?

Meg: I think so, because the one who is starting high school, going into ninth grade, it’s the same school he’s continuing in, but it’ll be a big transition. They even have meetings at school to help them think through: “Okay, you’re starting your freshman year. You’re on the path to what it might look like in four years if you go to college. You have to start thinking about things differently.” Yes, I think the pressure piles on.

David: When I think about each one of our kids, at all different ages—and this is true for any family, they all process something new like this so differently. Even your parenting approach has to be unique for each kid.

Meg: That’s right.

David: And you’re at your own capacity barometer. You’re off the charts [Laughter], getting supplies and what not. Each kid’s going: “Okay, who am I sitting by?” and “Where am I sitting at lunch?” and “Man, my class is totally different than last time,” or some pressure of not connecting with your teacher.

Ann: “Will I have the same friends?” “Will I have different friends?”

David: Right!

Ann: And “How will they treat me?” if it’s a new school. I’m thinking of Ford, your oldest, being in college, like, “What’s this—

David: —trying to find his way; yes, right.

Meg: Finding a whole new everything, you know? It’s true.

David: No matter how same it is—as a lot of our kids are back in the same school, except for Ford; but transitions in staging, they’re still new to it. New brings a lot of anxiety. When we move, I feel like, in our society, we actually don’t do a lot of grief work, moving from one city to another. Well, this is a micro move in these kids’ lives,--

Meg: —for sure—

David: —where they’re transitioning from something they learned to know, got rooted in. Some of them are probably looking for a fresh start, but most are actually coming in with: “I know some things, but this is a totally new day.” There’s grief that it is not the same and also excitement of what it could be. However, in the midst of that, is a lot of unknown. That unknown brings lots of anxiety.

Dave: Yes, it’s interesting, there was a study done in 2023 about the reasons kids miss school. Number one reason—guess what it is? Bad weather. [Laughter] That makes sense; when you’re in Michigan, we have snow days and that kind of thing.

Ann: Twenty-one percent, yes.

Dave: Yes, but number two—I don’t know if it was as high when we were raising kids, 20-some years ago, as it is now—but it’s anxiety.

Meg: Wow.

Dave: Kids are anxious and nervous. They literally feel it so strongly, they don’t go to school. You guys are parenting in this day and age. Is that real?

Meg: I think it is definitely real. We certainly see peers of our kids, who miss school for those reasons. I think it is interesting, because you also have kids at different stages, developmentally. Younger kids have a harder time vocalizing that, and you have to, as a parent, learn how to see: “What are they really feeling? What’s causing them to act this way?” or “…be fearful?” Those kind of things.

When you think of older kids—I don’t know the statistic, if it applies more to certain ages—kids in middle and high school are certainly feeling a lot more anxiety happening than [what] we experienced. I think there are so many things. We could probably pull out a whole list of things that contribute to that: social media—

Ann: —yes. Well, I have that list.

Meg: Oh, let’s hear it.

Ann: Yes, I have that list. [These are] factors that have a negative impact on teens’ mental health:

Thirty-four percent of teens are feeling stress related to finishing schoolwork and homework.

This is really good to lock into, parents, just to empathize and to realize: “These are the things your kids are feeling.”

Twenty-eight percent felt anxiety over their grades and test results.
Twenty-two percent felt concerns about physical appearance.
Twenty-one percent [had] anxiety over societal issues in news.

And then, I’ll just hit the last one:

Twenty percent [have] concerns about “how I am perceived by others.”

Meg: Yes.

Ann: Wow!

David: There’s a lot of data out there that, I think, connects these dots—not to put it all on it, but especially older kids: access to phones. I’m looking at the same stats here. None explicitly say, “phone,” but:

• How I physically appear: we know the connection to how people compare themselves.
• The performance orientation around test results and grades. I mean, getting into schools now; that’s ever present in your face if you’re a high schooler.
• And then, the social issues and perceived by others.

That’s the access and inputs that kids get and how they write their own narratives about themselves, based on comparing to some perfect version, or sugar-coated version, of what people present. It’s one of those key things that raises these areas [of anxiety], I’m confident.

Ann: It’s overwhelming for our kids. Here we are, as parents: “Help us. Help us know how to help our kids.”

David: I go back to a morning with one of our kids, where it’s a bad morning—hard morning, processing a lot. It was part friends, part grades. They just didn’t want to face the day. I remember pulling around, letting the other kids off, coming back, sitting in the parking lot and saying: “You know, we do hard things. This is what we do. We take steps of faith, and this is hard.”

The pep talk was not working! [Laughter] The things that, normally, the way it goes.

Ann: “We are the Robbinses. This is what we do!” [Laughter]

David: Yes; like, “We do hard things.” I was [thinking]: “It’s not happening.” There was a cracking happening.

What I appreciate, in some ways, is: I think the conversation around mental health today is helpful. We don’t give this out often, but that day, I was like, “Lord, what do You want me to do?” I made the choice: “Alright. We’re going to take an hour. You get to miss first period. Let’s go get a snack.”

All of a sudden, getting a snack, looking at the windshield, sitting in a parking lot, this wave of just getting it out happened. They had to still take some steps of courage to go that day, but there was a pressure relief valve. We prayed together, out loud; and then, they went on their way. It was decent day. It wasn’t a perfect day, it wasn’t a great day, it wasn’t an awesome day; it was a decent day.

Sometimes, we do have to enter in and meet people where they are. I’m grateful for the fact that mental health is talked about a lot more; yet, when it’s the second biggest reason people are missing physical presence at school, that’s when we do have an issue where we, as parents, have to talk about it.

Dave: Yes, how do you—as you guys are right in it right now, how do you—see the symptoms? What are the signs you guys see? You’ve got it, David, you’re sitting there, saying, “I’ve got to be present right now.” Often, we miss that.

Meg: Yes. Just as a side resource, I would say that David Thomas and Sissy Goff speak so well to this topic.

David: Yes; you can go look at archives at FamilyLife Today. We’ve had them on multiple times.

Meg: Yes; I know that David Thomas talks a lot about, in boys, anger is a surface, secondary emotion. You often kind of have to backtrack from what you’re seeing. I think that’s kind of the key, for boys and girls. Oftentimes, what emotions come out are reactions over things that seem small. You have to deal with those things in the moment, and be patient, and sit in it with your child; but I think it’s: “Okay, where is this really coming from?” And then, later, asking questions about: “What are you really feeling?” We have, literally, started trying to use a feelings wheel with our kids.

Ann: Yes.

Meg: “Pick out a couple of these that let us know how you’re feeling.”

David: And just so you know, they roll their eyes when we bring it out. [Laughter] And yet, it leads them to be able to name something. One of the biggest problems is being able to name what you’re actually feeling anxious about. That’s where you can start. A lot of times, we don’t have starting places, because we can’t name that.

Meg: And Josh and Christi Straub also have a book that’s geared more towards younger kids. Even Mac [their youngest] loves this book. It’s about feelings: “My feelings don’t have to control me, but they’re important.” There’s even a chart in the back of the book with different facial expressions.

Kids are different. They sniff that out; they don’t really like it when we dig in deeper, but I think they also know it’s important. And it actually does help them, in the long run, learn to name their emotions.

David: I think the two biggest strategies that kids do, that you can have your antennas up for, are avoidance and escape. When they are avoiding you or something—they’re withdrawing to their room unusually or any other way, or escape—they are getting really into something over the top or some new thing they are getting consumed with, that, often, can point to the fact that there’s so much going on, anxiety-wise, churning beneath them that they are running to something that they can control somehow.

That’s just a discernment thing. You know your kid, and the Holy Spirit can guide you, and can let you see, and prompt you to say: “Okay, where are my kids escaping?” or “Where are they avoiding? What are they avoiding?”

Dave: It’s interesting. Everything you just said applies to us, too. [Laughter]

David: Isn’t that true?

Dave: Even anger and emotions.

Meg: For sure! And that’s really where we started using the feelings wheel, and use it more, probably, with ourselves—

David: —in our marriage—

Meg: —each other.

David: —in a stuck place, it’s true; yes.

Meg: I sometimes have a hard time, myself, saying, “This is how I’m feeling,” because I don’t always recognize it.

Ann: We have a grandchild who was dying—you guys probably remember when they start school, and it’s so hard.

David and Meg: Yes.

Ann: This little grandson has a little heart on the palm of his hand that has been put there by his dad. His dad has one, and the mom has one, and the sister has one. They all connect hearts with the palm of their hands.

Meg: Aww!

David: Ah, you’re kidding me.

Ann: They pray for each other. They’re like, “We’re going to be together when we get back together.” During the day, he would just look at the palm of his hand—

Meg: —so sweet!

Ann: —remembering, “My dad and mom are praying for me. They’re with me, and I’ll be back with them in a few hours.”

David: That gives me chills. [Laughter] I love that.

There’s something around—especially, for kids—to get them out of their—

Ann: —frontal—

David: —frontal cortex; and just slowing down a child; what they’re intaking. Because they’re getting flooded with all these emotions that lead to this anxiety, or overwhelming [feelings], or stress. Just simply say, “In this world, we may have trouble; but in Jesus, He has overcome the world.” [John 16:33, Paraphrased] Being able to repeat that, or any verse, and being able to meditate on Scripture as you slow down a kid’s processing.

However, a heart; that’s pretty special. That’s amazing.

Dave: And pretty cool.

One of the ways our kids get flooded (you just used that word) is social media.

Meg: Yes.

Dave: What do you guys do? Take us into the Robbins’ home in terms of phones and that kind of thing with your teenagers and your younger kids. How do you manage that, as mom and dad?

David: I, first, want to give a caveat that: anything we have done—one, we haven’t done it perfectly; and two, it’s been at the advice of some great partners that we have brought in here in studio. People like Axis Ministries—David Eaton—that we’ve had in studio, and many others; we could start giving a long list. We have followed a lot of their advice. Now that we’re getting older kids, I’m so grateful that we’ve heard some of their blunt advice. And now that the data is coming in, it’s supporting it.

Here’s what we’ve done—this won’t be for everybody, but here’s some of the things we’ve done.

Meg: Also, we’re still in this—in the thick of it still; so, we haven’t arrived at the end and are saying, “Oh, all these things worked so well.” It’s kind of an ever-adjusting thing.

David: That’s true.

Meg: We held off on iPhone®s. When our oldest was in middle school, we were living in New York City. He needed some way to contact us, because he was walking 20 blocks to school. He had a flip phone—

Dave: Talk about anxiety—

Meg: —so, old-school texting. [Laughter]

David: Yes. [Laughter] He was loving it.

Dave: —20 blocks to school?

David: Every kid longs to be independent—

Dave: —in New York.

David —and he was loving it.

Meg: Yes, he was loving it. It’s true.

David: You know what’s great about the flip phone, though? We ended up copying that for multiple kids,—

Meg: —for our second.

David: —because they can communicate if they have to; one, with us as parents (that’s really nice after practice), but with their friends. Now, they’re missing out on iMessage, yes, and that’s okay.

Meg: And there are different options. There are probably a lot better options now, because when our second child got the flip phone, we had to go and argue with the cell phone company to get them to take off the internet.

Dave: I bet.

Meg: And then, our third: he actually didn’t have anything until eighth grade.

David: One of the reasons why, for him, is because he saw their basketball team—a few friends, a grade older—got a phone. They detached. They totally zoned in. It’s what happens!

Ann: The friend—

David: —the friend.

Ann: —with the phone, detached.

David: His group of younger graders, who were on that same team, made a pact: “Let’s wait until”—not only wait until eighth grade; “We’re making a pact to not dive in.”

Meg: “We don’t want phones.”

David: Yes; “We don’t want phones,” they said for a while. And that softened over time.

Ann: Of course.

Dave: So, they saw it.

David: Yes!

Meg: They did.

Dave: They saw the withdrawal.

David: And I think everyone is seeing it in their age.

Meg: I think one of the things we’ve seen in all three of our kids who are old enough to have phones now—they are 14 and up: the longer we waited for something, the more they begin to see it for what it really was.

David: Yes, we waited until 16 because of friends who had done the research, who are solid resources, like Axis. There’s a lot of data out there about what kids brains—“At least, wait until 16,” which feels like an eternity in some contexts. “Are you kidding me?”

And then, as you do that—this was your question, Ann, “How do you provide limits?”

Meg: We didn’t say, “Okay, when you turn 16, you get a free-for-all pass to anything.” We were like, “We’re going to stay open-minded and keep seeking the Lord; but we know we’re probably going to stick with: ‘We’re not going to have a conversation about really going into social media until you are that age,’” just based on research and other wise people that we had seen.

For our son, he got one social media app. After about four weeks, he was like, “This is not even worth my time.” He ended up getting off of it. [Laughter] I think it’s because, the longer you wait, you see other people interacting in that space—I remember, at one point, he was like, “My friends are spending like five hours, sending pictures of their forehead to each other.” That’s what Snapchat® had become.

I think our daughter has seen just how people can start to feel left out when they see their friends post places where they were, or things like that. It’s kind of like, “Do I want to be seeing that all the time?”

Ann: Talk to the parent who is saying, “My 12-year-old daughter”—or 13-year-old, whatever age—“I can hardly stand the bombardment and pressure she’s putting on me. It’s constant.” I think, often—

Dave: —for a phone, for social media.

Ann: Yes! Often, a parent just caves, like, “I can’t do this anymore.”

Meg: Yes.

Ann: And then, we’ve heard parents say, “But I really regret it.”

Meg: Right.

Ann: How do you get that child to lay off the pressure on you?

Meg: Keep having those conversations; keep listening, with grace. These are decisions we have to make for our kids and their heart; what we’re choosing to expose them to or not. We wouldn’t allow them to go in certain places that would be dangerous for them in the physical world. Allowing them into those places in the social media, or the internet, or the phone world, we have to recognize it’s the same.

And then, the other thing: The Social Dilemma is a documentary on Netflix®. We watched that with our kids. It impacted them pretty deeply. When you hear the person who created the “Like” button on Facebook® say that he is lobbying Congress, now, to put major limits—

Ann: —yes—

Meg: “This is not healthy for our kids. It was never intended to become something that would lead to depression and suicide. We have to get honest about this.” When you hear those people saying those kinds of things, and that they don’t let their kids use any of that stuff until 16, or even 18, it sinks in, even for a 12-year-old.

David: I would say we’ve had to repeat the destination:

“The destination is, I want you to have a phone; you’re going to. I want you to do it well. I make mistakes; I get down rabbit holes; I get my dopamine hits.”

This is one of the best places to become more like Jesus. It’s one of the most visual, moment-by-moment, daily, minute-by-minute things we do: be connected to our phones. It’s actually one of the most shaping things in discipleship for us—let’s own it as adults—and for our kids, especially as they are shaped

“Hey, I am all in for you having a phone and for you, likely, being on social media, if that’s what you choose to do. I’m here for that journey. Here’s where our journey starts, based on some of these realities.”

For us, that meant eighth grade for an iPhone, and that was with limitations. We took Safari® off—there’s great—Apple® has responded. It’s hard to do, but Apple has responded, where you can set up some significant limitations, and layer in access to Safari later, etc.; And then, social media [not] until 16.

The data is out there. They may not like it, and yet, you’re giving them the destination of: “I want you to be like Jesus with everything you’ve got. And your phone is going to be part of your world. It is!”

Shelby: We’re going to hear some more from Ann, here, in just a second with some practical application on what we’ve heard today. But first, I’m Shelby Abbott, and you’ve been listening to Dave and Ann Wilson with David and Meg Robbins on FamilyLife Today.

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Okay, here’s some practical application from Ann on what we’ve heard today:

Ann: I’m just thinking of parents listening to this—I’m thinking of mom’s listening. Share this with your friends! I love this picture of getting together with a couple friends, maybe four friends, and being committed to praying for your kids.

Meg: Yes.

Ann: I had that with my friends, where we just sent out prayer requests at the beginning of the year, and all through the year, because we don’t need to do it alone. God is with us; but man, to have some friends who are partnering with us—that helps, too. This has been great.

Dave: Yes, it has been great. And I tell you, one image I can’t get out of my mind, that I would love parents to have in their mind, of all the things we talked about today,[is] if your kid is anxious, sit in the car, skip first period—

Ann: —not every day! [Laughter]

David: Not every day.

Dave: —not every day—yes, “You’ve got to go to school.”

David: “We do hard things, and”—

Dave: But I mean, be present in that scary moment for them. It will pass, but they need a parent who’s there; not giving all the answers, just saying, ‘Let’s take a deep breath”—

Ann: —and “I’m with you.”

Dave: —“and decompress.” That’s what God does. I think that would be a great moment for you, as a parent, maybe, just living that moment with your child.

Shelby: Now, coming up tomorrow, we’re in back-to-school season. David and Meg Robbins are going to be back with some practical tips for managing stress and trusting God in this season where our kids head back to school. That’s coming up tomorrow. We hope you’ll join us.

On behalf of Dave and Ann Wilson, I’m Shelby Abbott. We will see you back next time for another edition of FamilyLife Today.

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