Can I Really Hear God’s Voice? Axel Uri

Axel: Marriage, I've been in this for nine months, but I can honestly say that as I've been married, I've been confronted more with my pride more than I ever have. And people don't like being confronted with their pride. People will do anything to run away from anything that will tell them that they're not the best person in the world. They're like, they have it all together, and marriage will show you just how selfish you are.

But I think being in that marriage, when you give it into the Lord, it's a vehicle that He will use to shape you and your spouse into the image of Christ. And if there's anything that you want, it's that.

Shelby: Somewhat anxious, always authentic, this is Real Life Loading...

I'm here with Axel Uri, who works for Cru®, just got married not too long ago. I wanted to talk a lot about your experiences as a young person and getting married, because a lot of times, especially on this podcast on Real Life Loading, we don't really address the marriage aspect of that, because a lot of people aren't getting married young, and that's really one of the main reasons I wanted to talk to you.

When did you get married?

Axel: I got married June 3rd of 2023, so a couple months now

Shelby: Okay. You said you're twenty-four?

Axel: am. I just turned twenty-four.

Shelby: Just turned twenty-four. So, you got married when you were twenty-three.

Axel: Yes.

Shelby: What led you to decide to get married this young? Why was that on the table for you?

Axel: Yes, that's a good question. I think young is all relative.
Shelby: Yes, sure, sure.

Axel: I think like in my engagement party my father-in-law. I said that we're getting married young because they asked for some, some words from me and my now wife. Then I was like, yes, we're getting married young. And then after that he said, well, yes, but we got married like when we were like nineteen. And stuff like that. So, it's all about perspective.

But for me, the reason I felt good with getting married more than anything is because I felt the Lord's hand over it. I mean, of course, I think you have to be of a certain age as a person and in perspective. I think culture comes into that too. But more than anything what I felt is I just felt the Lord's hand over it for this time. I felt the support of my family.
I felt the support of her family, and I felt that God was uniting us. So yes, I had no hesitations and going for it. No matter what the age, you know.

Shelby: How long were you guys engaged?

Axel: We were engaged not too long to be honest. It was from November and then we got married in June. So that that's like what, seven months? Something like that.

Shelby: Yes. Okay.

Axel: Yes. So, people were engaged for like two years.

Shelby: Yes. I know a few people, I was like, wow that's a long time. I was engaged for a year.

Axel: Okay.

Shelby: But that was purposeful, because when we got engaged, my wife was going into her senior year of college.

Axel: Okay.

Shelby: She didn't want to be married and be a college student, which I didn't want that for her either. So, we were purposefully waiting for graduation for her.

How long were you guys together, like dating, before you got engaged?

Axel: Only nine months.

Shelby: Oh, wow. Okay.

Axel: Yes, it was all pretty quick.

Shelby: Yes, it all happened really, really fast. How'd you meet her?

Axel: I met her in university. I went to a Christian university. [Laughter] I laugh because there's this thing that we always say at Christian college, “Ring-by-Spring.”

Shelby: Yes. Yes. Yes. I've heard that before.

Axel: I didn't want to fill that stereotype, but like, I kind of did. But, no, man when I met her, we were doing like student led campus ministry.

Shelby: Okay.

Axel: I'm just leading worship nights and stuff. Then once COVID happened everyone went home. I just got to know her a little better online. Then we just started talking a little more. We came back to school. We started seeing each other a little more. I'm actually a music producer. I started making music for her. And long story.

Shelby: She's an artist then?

Axel: Yes. She's a worship leader. I am too. We made some music together and then bada-bing, bada-boom. January came around and we were together.

Shelby: You made music together.

Axel: Yes, a symphony.

Shelby: Yes, a symphony, that's good. I like that.

You know, a lot of people decide to delay marriage for a number of different reasons. And maybe perhaps just move in together. Why was that not on the table for you?

Axel: I'm a pastor. She's a pastor's daughter. We come from pastoral families, and by the grace of God we come from families that hold the Bible as the Word of God. That's something to be honored and obeyed for the fruitfulness of life, and that wasn't an option because it's not an option for God. And I come back to the idea that marriage, it's God's institution. It's not our thing, and we can't make of it what we want.

We wanted to do things God's way, and we decided to get engaged. Then when we got married, we knew that that was the right time to build a home together, you know, not before then.

Shelby: Yes. I love how you phrased that. It was the fruitfulness, like it's an invitation. Because a lot of people think the Word of God or the Bible is something that puts up restrictions to hold us back from the things we actually want to do. When in reality, it's actually just the opposite of that. It's like an invitation into real life. Can you speak to that a little bit?

Axel: Oh no, for sure. I think that as I've learned and as I've grown, I've seen that fruitfulness in my life comes from obeying the Word of God. Funny enough, I'm actually currently just meditating on my own time, reading day by day through Psalm 119, which is the longest Psalm.

But it's all about the fruitfulness of the precepts of God, meditating, longing, finding your pleasure, your joy, and fulfillment in God's Word. I've noticed that from marriage to my personal life to ministry to friendships, I've always found the most success when I build my life on God's eternal Word, the written Word which reveals the Living Word, Jesus. The Word is everything to me, so yes.

Shelby: What would you say to the idea that's out there, that getting married young is a huge mistake? How would you respond to that?

Axel: How I would respond to that, I think it really all depends on perspective. Because I'm going to be honest with you, I think a lot of people who see marriage as something that you shouldn't get into “too young.” I think it's a lot based on their perception of what marriage is and their perspective of what they see in marriage to be. A lot of people unfortunately come from homes of failed marriages.

I think what we're seeing is a lot of people, more than anything, whether they verbalize it or vocalize it or not, or they're consumed with two things. One, they're consumed with the fact that they saw that their parents went through failed marriages. That in turned harmed and hurt them deeply, which then turned them to secularize their life in a sense where like, “Oh, I can sleep around, and I don't have to be within the covenant of marriage, because that's going to fail anyway. I think what we see a lot is a reproduction of people saying, “This is not good for me.”

But also, it's just becoming increasingly unpopular, because we say this in Gen Z that people are chasing their bag. Like they're just trying to make money. They're trying to get as many followers as they can on Instagram. They're trying to be the next Instagram baddie. They're trying to get the most followers on TikTok. They're trying to be a voice for their generation. I think this drive to want to do something successful with your life is a beautiful thing, if you channel it for the gospel.

But when you get so consumed with earthly things, it kind of jades you from what the beauty of God is. Of course, when you're not built on Scripture. You're not built on the cross. You're not built on Jesus. You're jaded by what's in the world, you know. Like what's in the world suddenly becomes attractive to you, and what is of God - it's suddenly like this is garbage. Why would I get married? It's a waste of time.

Shelby: Yes.

Axel: But I think what really it is more than anything the reason why people are shying away from marriage in Gen Z and maybe like younger Millennials too is because more than anything, they're consumed with sin. You know, I think every generation has been consumed with sin.

Shelby: Yes, to a degree. It's not new.

Axel: Right, it's not a new thing. It's like the Tower of Babel. Everybody ever since the beginning, we've been consumed with sin - Adam and Eve.

But I think the way that that's worked out in every generation looks a little different. In our generation, it looks like secularization. It looks like people walking more and more away from God, and walking more away from what God designed, which is marriage.

Shelby: Yes. I think that too, the vibe that people have with marriage is that they're like, “Why would I do something like that, that locks me in, when I can get all the ‘benefits of marriage’ by just moving in with someone, living with them? That way I'm not bound if it doesn't work out. Then I'm not jumping into a huge decision now in my twenties that's going to affect me for the rest of my life.” Or like you said, it might lead to divorce anyway. You know, it's like, I need to test drive a car before I buy it, yes.

How would you respond to that? What would you say?

Axel: Maybe I'm biased. I'm built on the Word of God.

Shelby: You are biased. Yes, that's a good thing. Everybody's biased. That's the truth.

Axel: But no, I think that the way I see it, God designed marriage. When we try to get the benefits of marriage outside of marriage, it's a twisting of what God created. Therefore, it only has negative repercussions. Man, how many people have we seen move in together? They engage in sex with one another. They're practicing covenant without being in covenant.

Shelby: Yes.

Axel: There ends up being a kid on the way. Whether it's an abortion or you have the kid, there's marks left on the hearts of people. I mean there's just so much toxicity that comes from trying to do something that God designed your way. You know, I think you could say that for anything in the world.

But I think that it really comes to show that God created marriage to be of oneness. It's called to be a reflection of Him. When we try to walk into that at the wrong time, it just leads to a lot of negative repercussions. I mean, people, more than anything that I've seen, move-in together, and then move-out. Then they just get into this cycle of move-in, move-out, move-in without a whole bunch of people. They end up empty.
Really what you see is people who are in that, they never found their fulfillment in the first place. Right? They haven't found identity yet in Jesus. So, they're trying to find identity and having a person that they really love and then trying to find their identity. You know what? Let's make this a little more serious, even though there's no covenant. There’s no covering.

I'm still trying to fill a void with something that can't fulfill me. Not only that, I'm trying to do it my way, not God's way. But man, let me tell you I can honestly say that when I sat down with my wife on our honeymoon, and then we went back home, we said, “Man, this was worth waiting for.” Like to know not that just I love you. You love me. But this is something like what God unifies let no man separate. That God, the eternal God, has his hand over this man.

There's just this invigorating feeling of knowing that not only am I waking up next to this person every day, knowing that I’m in love and that God is about this, and it's not just about sex. I’m in a union with someone That's a covenant union that will bear fruitfulness for the Kingdom. I’m literally living with a partner that is going to bear fruitfulness for God's gain.

It's not even just about me and my wife. It's suddenly about Jesus, His return, and the gospel being pushed to the ends of the earth. Like our life and our marriage is filled with so much purpose, because we have our eyes locked on each other forever.

Shelby: Yes.

Axel: But more than anything, we have our eyes locked on the King and the King has His eyes locked on our marriage, which is so crazy.

Shelby: Yes. That's a great perspective, not one that often that people hold. But it's that same kind of principle of when you live selfishly, when you live for like your own things, it feels good temporarily, but it ultimately leaves you hollow, leaves you empty. When you live for others, if you live intentionally for the benefit of others, you feel more fulfilled. It's more sacrifice in the moment.

Axel: Oh yes.

Shelby: It's like sin always feels like little bursts of life that really lead to death. And living for God feels like these little, tiny deaths that really ultimately leads to life.

Axel: I love that. That's so good.

Shelby: Yes. That's really kind of the picture that you're painting here is when you live with a person and you're sacrificing or yourself for the benefit of that other person, and you're sacrificing for the benefit of honoring God by not doing the instincts that you have sexually, you know, you're waiting for those kind of things. You're actually blessing God. You're blessing the person you want to be with, and you're blessing yourself .You're ultimately being fulfilled. So, it feels like these little deaths, but it ultimately leads to life.

Axel: Yes. I love that perspective, man - like little deaths. And I almost see it like this, like coming into marriage.

Here's another reason why people I feel like don't want to get into marriage young, they're immature. Marriage, funny enough, it takes a lot of maturity, I'd say, to recognize how immature you are.

Shelby: Yes. Yes, yes, yes.

Axel: You know, and that's exactly what marriage does for you. It's just I've been in this for nine months, but I can honestly say that, as I've been married, I've been confronted more with my pride more than I ever have, and people don't like being confronted with their pride.

People will do anything to run away from anything that will tell them that they're not the best person in the world. They're like, they have it all together. And marriage will show you just how messed up you are in some senses; how selfish you are. I think being in that marriage, when you give it into the Lord, it's a vehicle that He will use to shape you and your spouse into the image of Christ. And if there's anything that you want, it's that. You know.

Shelby: Yes, because putting that mirror up to your face, while painful, it's necessary. And it's actually, again, it's not an invitation into, like, death. It's actually an invitation into true life.

Axel: Oh, for sure.

Shelby: You get beyond that pain point, and then there's the sweetness on the other side of humility. So, you need to go through pain in order to get to the real sweetness of life.

Axel: Oh for sure.

Shelby: You need to go through suffering, and like you said marriage is one of those things that confronts you with your own monstrosity. It puts like a mirror up to who you really are. Then If you lean into that instead of run away from it, because a lot of people run away from it and that's where you need marriage counseling, or like there's marital problems.

Axel: Sure.

Shelby: But if you lean into it, then you start to discover, “Oh, there's a true sweetness because I'm dying to myself.”

Axel: Yes.

Shelby: I'm neglecting all the worst parts of my life in order to benefit that other person and benefit the blessings of the Lord.

Axel: For sure. Another reason, and not just maybe young people, but a lot of reason why people are running away from marriage is because they've seen divorce and they've seen so much failure in it in the culture. They're running away from pain. They're running away from having to be in pain, because of a failed marriage.

But I'll say this, pain's perspective changes with Christ, because pain didn't come from God. He didn't create pain, but He redeemed it. He redeemed it at the cross. When He went to the cross, when He went to Calvary for us, He died and resurrected. He suddenly made the Roman cross, a form of torture, something so painful and ugly and disgusting, turned it into something beautiful by way of His love in the same way that all suffering now has a way of being redeemed by God, to be able to shape you into who God is. And like you said, bring us to the sweetness of life, the little deaths, and sometimes a marriage, even the big deaths. Right?

Having to die to yourself in big ways, having to confront the big demons in your life. All those deaths lead to everlasting life, when you let God change the trajectory of how you see marriage, you know. So, I love, love, love, this perspective of like little deaths. I think marriage is one that some people might see as a big death, when you idolize this life too much. But when Christ becomes your everything, you're willing to lose this life to gain true life, as Jesus says. I think that marriage becomes something really beautiful.

Shelby: Yes, and I like how you you stated that too, because it's like you need God to step in, not just to help you, which He does, He does help you, but you need God to step in and really live that marriage for you, live that relationship for you.

Because if you try to do it on your own power, you will eventually fail. It's like you can white knuckle your way into like a lot of discipline things. Like I'm going to go to the gym today, and I'm going to do it. And you can do that on your own strength and own power. But when you're faced with the big boy, big girl stuff of facing your own arrogance, or facing your own problems from your past that are manifesting itself right now in the present, if you try to do that on your own, your knees will buckle eventually.

You need God to show up and that's actually, again, that's not a bad thing. That is a good thing because when God shows up, that's when real change happens. Real heart gets transformed, real motivations even, because you can say, “Oh, like, yes, I'll try to do this,” but your motivations on the inside might be bad.

Well, God is the only one who could change those motivations, because He's in the business of transforming lives.

Alex: So good.

Shelby: So, yes, doing it on your own power is, like, it could ultimately end up killing you if you're not, like, trusting in the Lord for those things.

Well, this leads me into my next question, which I think that so many young people are paralyzed in many ways with indecision. They don't want to do the wrong thing. They don't want to make the wrong decision. We've been talking about that a little bit with marriage, and I don't want to get divorced in the future, so I don't want to do this now. They don't want to make any mistakes. They want everything to be successful.

So how have mistakes been good things in your life?

Axel: I think I'll come back to the idea of what I said before. That God has turned suffering into a beautiful thing by way of the cross and by way of His nature. Bro, if I didn't go through the things that I went through before I got married, I don't think my marriage would be as successful as it is so far in these past few months. And that I know it's going to be in the name of Jesus going forward, because going through failure is what helped me hear the voice of God. I'll give you a simple, brief example. There was this girl.

Shelby: Let me see. Yes, tangibly.

Axel: So, there was this girl that I really liked before. (Obviously, I had my wife and stuff) and I almost felt like God was telling me to go for it. Like, yes, this is the green light. Let's go. Let's go. Let's go. And like, I felt like, yes, like I'm praying. I'm in my Word. I'm just feeling it. I come to find out that this is not the person for me. Comes to be a really toxic experience, and it made me reevaluate how I hear God.

Shelby: Yes.

Axel: I'm the type of person where I really do feel like the Lord speaks in various ways. But when it came to marriage, because I guess I'm by nature a very emotional person, I think God had to teach me to listen to His voice in very practical ways.

Shelby: And not just emotional ways.

Axel: Right, and not just of course He speaks to me through my emotions. We all have emotions. God has emotions. He gave us emotions to speak to us through them to be indicators of who we are. I digress. Point being, God ended up speaking to me for example, that He gave the green light over this marriage and this matrimony the dating process everything. Not necessarily, “Oh like I heard the whisper in the secret place. Or, like the trees just swayed just to the left and just perfectly while I was in my prayer place.”

Shelby: Then I knew, yes.

Axel: No that I knew the Lord like no. It was the okay from my parents that, “Yes, this is good for you.” It was the repute of her friends as I got to know her. What they had to say about her. What my friends had to say about me to her. You know the aligning of our call. It was the very practical things.

And I think it was learning to fail, hearing the voice of God rather than listening to my emotions, and learning to learn the voice of God through my emotions and getting to know her. For example, instead of rushing into things based on my emotions, I slowed down the process. I really took my time and getting to know her a little by little before we said yes to dating.

And I, and maybe once again, I'm a biased Ring-by-Spring, dude, went to Christian university, pastor, just wanted to get with his girl and have it be over, you know.

Shelby: Right, right.

Axel: But I really do believe that it was that certainty that I learned from hearing the voice of God in the practicals, that gave me the certainty right when I started dating her. I'm like, yes, I'm going to marry this girl. I know that I'm going to marry this girl, because I know that I've heard the voice of God in the people around me and in the wise counsel. As I was in Proverbs, in the multitude of wise counsel around me [Paraphrased]. I know that God's hand is over this.

I got into the relationship and as we spent time together, I'm like, I'm going to marry this girl. Like God, God is setting this up. I know He is, and this is Kingdom. You know? Yes. So, that's how failure kind of shaped that a little bit for me.

Shelby: Yes, that's cool. I like hearing how that worked out for you very specifically as an emotion driven person. I'm not necessarily an emotion driven person, but I had a lot of failures in relationships in the sense that they didn't work out.

I got broken up with in particular three times, before I ended up dating my wife. And my wife, when I was dating her, it's interesting that you're like, I knew this, I knew it immediately because of the practicals. The practicals were there with me and my wife, when we were first starting to date. But because I'd been broken up with three other times with great women, they were awesome. It just didn't work out. I was a little bit leery.

Alex: Yes, and a little bit hesitant.

Shelby: Yes. To jump in and go, this is the one. So, I protected myself from going there too far in my mind and heart. But I was discovering the practicals as time went on.

I loved how, like, I wanted to observe how she interacted with her friends, and I loved how she interacted with her friends. I wanted to observe her sense of humor. I wanted to observe how she was relating with other people and how is she socially. How much, obviously, does she love Jesus? Like, was she leaning into that and that? I discovered over time.

Then when she discovered that about me over time, then we eventually were able to have that conversation and go, how are we feeling about like the practicals? For me, I was like, I was on staff with Cru. It was like, “How do you feel about staff with Cru?”
And she was like, “I feel good about it.” I'm like, okay, then that was one more thing. And I discovered that over time. But it's not a playbook. It's not like, “Hey, run the play. And this is how it's going to work.” I think everybody wants the playbook.

Alex: Right.

Shelby: Tell me exactly how it's going to happen. And I'll do that, but it doesn't work like that. It doesn't often work like that.

Axel: I think when you try to have that mentality, you miss out on the journey of what God is doing in the process. Because even in getting ready, I think in preparing for marriage, you could probably say the same thing. That God did a lot in you and made you the man that you needed to become to be, not just be married, but to be more like Jesus in preparing for marriage.

When you want to like to know everything right away, like, “Oh, give me the playbook. How does it go?” I think there's some general principles that everybody can follow based on Scripture, based on the wise counsel of pastors and leaders, family who are of repute, friends who are of repute, who might be a wise voice in your life.

Shelby: Resources, like books and stuff like that, Bible studies.

Axel: FamilyLife®’s Preparing for Marriage. Yes. So, like any one of our resources or something like that. But I think that along the way you will build your own personal story. Fun fact, my grandparents got married after a week of knowing each other.

Shelby: They got married in a week?

Axel: Married after a week of knowing each other. Mind you, they're like, my grandfather's in his eighties now. My grandmother has just turned eighty.

Shelby: Uh huh.

Axel: So, they're like - they're a little dusty.
Shelby: A little dusty. [Laughter]

Axel: A little bit, yes.

Shelby: A little bit dusty.

Axel: Yes, a little bit dusty.

Shelby: Yes, but it was a different time back then.

Axel: Different time, different country. Dominican Republic, I mean, different culture.
[Laughter] Anyways, I digress.

Shelby: They got married, so they met each other, and they married each other a week later.

Axel: Yes man, it was almost like one of those arranged marriage kind of things.

Shelby: Yes, and interesting too, like statistically speaking, arranged marriages work out more.

Axel: No way.

Shelby: Yes, I think I had heard that stat. I'm not 100 percent certain what the numbers are now, but like, arranged marriages typically don't end a divorce as much as Western marriages do.

Axel: Yes, maybe, and maybe that's a lot about culture too.

Shelby: Yes, a lot of, I'm sure. Yes, yes.

Axel: You know? But like, sometimes divorce literally is not an option. But yes, very interesting.

Shelby: Yes. A week later.

Axel: Dude is wild.

Shelby: That is crazy.

Axel: But they're still together.

Shelby: Do they have stories? Like, that kind of blow your mind, of like how in the world?

Axel: Yes, man. I mean like not to like put my family's dirty laundry out there and stuff, but they had some infidelity at some point. You know there were some real challenges, but they made it work out. I think God was faithful because along came my mom, who married my dad. They've made it work out.

Along came me, came my sister, and God is doing something in our story, and my wife's story now, you know. We've come a long way from almost getting divorced and knowing each other for a week to hearing the voice of God and having our story be written. But it's funny how God's story has been written over the whole thing. You know.

Shelby: Yes, it's beautiful.

The other thing that I thought about too is like a lot of times, Christians in particular, and maybe you feel this by going to a Christian school, is that they want some sort of supernatural - you were alluding to like the trees swaying and that kind of stuff. They want God to speak to them in a very practical way and tell them what to do. Usually, my thought process with that is, you know, John the Baptist heard the audible voice of God that said, “This is my Son, obey, listen to Him.”

Axel: Uh-hmm.

Shelby: And yet at the end of his life, John the Baptist was still asking whether or not Jesus was the one.

Axel: Jesus was the Messiah, yes, right.

Shelby: And we think. I think that if we get the parting of the clouds and that God will speak to us and tell us exactly what to do, we think, “Oh, we'll know exactly what to do and we'll obey it.” But the truth is we actually won't. We won’t.

So, all those things that we think we need from God to be indicators about how to proceed or what to do, or who to be with, that's what we'll do and we'll obey it. But the truth is our hearts will always lead us in directions that will often take us away from God even if we hear His voice in that whole process.

Axel: Right.

Shelby: I love how you're talking about the practicalities of being obedient, listening to His Word. A lot of times people go, “I just want to hear the voice of God.” I saw this meme one time, it's like, “You will hear the voice of God open your Bible and read it out loud and you’ll hear the voice of God.”

Axel: Sure, I mean it's the written Word bro, it's already there. I think people are looking for that supernatural word. Like someone come give me either a word of prophecy or somebody needs to tell me something supernatural at like a church or something, but man open your Bible.

Shelby: Yes.

Axel: Here's also what I would say as advice as someone who just got married and like wanted to know the voice of God, talk to wise counsel. I said that before, but like there's something so beautiful--

Shelby: People have gone ahead of you.

Axel: Yes, gone ahead of you. Especially people of course who have been successful with marriage. I think you can learn a thing or two from failed stories for sure. God has a way of redeeming every story. It's not like people are failures, but God has a way of redeeming people. But I would say learn from wise counsel. Some of the most valuable pieces of advice that I got from hearing the voice of God, as I prepared to marry my wife or make that kind of a decision was talking to my dad, talking to my mom, is this good for me? Do you guys think this is going to work?

I'm talking to my friends who are godly. I think it's interesting to get perspective from individuals who are much older, further along in marriage, further along in life. But also, Godly young men and women who are walking hand in hand with you. And what do they see?

My friend, Eli, he's like my best friend, he got married just before me. He got married in October and then I got married the next June. What did I see in him in his process to get married? Because I see what he has is something fruitful. He and his wife serve the Lord. They love the Lord. They're not perfect. But man, do they have something set up that is of Jesus.

I wanted to learn from what they did so I can make sure to make the right decision too. And I found that the voice of God spoke to me in the multiplicity of the body of Christ. And I'll say this. I know I'm talking a lot.

Shelby: No, that's why I'm here, to listen to you.

Axel: We're here to talk.

But I think as Christians, we deemphasize the fact that we're literally the body of Christ and body of Christ. Like, this is Christ's body. We are Christ's body. And just as Christ spoke here on earth, walking with His disciples, and then He ascended into heaven, and then the apostles were filled with the Holy Spirit to send forth the ministry of the gospel. And now we are all the body of Christ.

So much as the words of Jesus bear weight, the words of the body of Christ bear weight in your life. They have that weight because we carry the weight of the glory of Jesus. We bear the name of Jesus. We bear the Holy Spirit. We're marked with Him. And the Holy Spirit speaks through people around you.

If you want to hear the voice of God, get into the Word. Is this relationship you're getting into the person you're wanting to marry? Are these aligning with the precepts of who God is and who God is uniquely called to be when you look at the Word of God? And then what are the voices of wisdom have to say around you?

If they're really seeing that what you're getting yourself into is fruitful and honorable, then what you could say is the Lord is about this. But if you can see that there's doubt in the people who care about you most. That are godly, that have the wisdom that you need to hear, and they're like be careful. Because there's some red flags you should be looking at, that you might be jaded and looking at, because you're seeing everything through the lens of love. I think that can also be the voice of God in giving you precaution.

Shelby: Yes, because the, the Bible has a whole lot of nothing to say about dating.

Axel: Because it didn't exist.

Shelby: It's a cultural thing. It exists now. But biblical principles and biblical thinking can be applied. Like, you're doing certain things in a dating relationship that doesn't necessarily explicitly say you should or should not do this in the Scriptures. There's plenty of other Scripture that can inform that.

Axel: Sure.

Shelby: Like moving in together, for example, you know. It's clear. It doesn't say, “Don't move in together.” But like, there's very clear stuff in Scripture that points to sexual immorality or the sanctity of marriage and all those kind of things. It's like, it's there in Scripture. Just make sure that you're understanding it appropriately.

And like you said, talking to older people who can really help guide and shape your direction and give you godly advice. Or go, if you were me, what would you do in this situation? And listen to what they say.

It's not always going to be like the exact thing you should do. I've had plenty of older people speak into my life. Their hearts are great. They're godly people. They say, “I think you should do this.” I’m looking at my life and I’m like, I think they're wrong. I don't think that's okay, and it's not necessarily a gospel truth. But it's one of those things that I want to listen to them, take it into account and wrestle with those things, because like you said, “The journey is just as important as the destination.”

And we think that the destination, “Oh, once I get married,” then I'll be, I will have arrived. But God cares just as much about the destination, including all the failures,--
Axel: Yes.

Shelby: --including all the heartbreak, including the pain that you're going through. He's just as present, and He cares just as much in those moments as He does the day of your wedding, when everything's joyful, and everything's happy, and then you finally get to have sex, and all that kind of stuff.

He cares just as much about all of it. So don't negate any of those things. Be really intentional to say, “I know that God is very present here, and He wants to teach me just as much in the pain as He does the joy.

Axel: Yes. We're in a microwave culture, man. We want everything very quick, and we're very turned off by the idea of a process.

Shelby: Yes.

Axel: Of having to go through a process and listening to the voice of God in the process. But man, do I know that it's because of the way I've learned to listen to God's voice in the process - that He's equipping me and has equipped me thus far. And is going to continue to equip me to be a priest over my household, to be the discipler of my children, to be the discipler of my wife. If I would have never learned the things that I needed to learn in the dating process, in the hearing of the voice of God process, in the failures, in getting up, I would never be the man that I need to be for my marriage, bro. Like it would just would never happen.

But a lot of the times, even us as Christians, we want a life free of wrestling. We forget that Jacob wrestled with God. You know?

Shelby: He away limping.

Axel: And he walked away limping, but he walked away knowing that his name was changed. He is now Israel, and he carries a promise of God.

And sometimes it takes wrestling to know that we're carrying God's promise. And not necessarily wrestling with like, because it's not that God hates us or anything, we have to fight God. But we have to wrestle within ourselves, within our own pride, our own contempt, our own conceit. We have to fight within ourselves to know what God is doing and to work through all that sinful mess to bring beauty, which is His glory.

Shelby: Yes, because like you said, “The wrestling match is a good thing.”

Axel: Oh yes, man.

Shelby: It helps us to connect and confront the areas where we need to change. God doesn't ever change.
Axel: Yes, for sure.

Shelby: Well as you think about your marriage, what has been the most surprising thing about being married good or bad?

Axel: Yes, the most surprising thing. I think I’ll go back to that idea. It's a good thing. I think like in the moment it might be like a challenging thing, by exactly how much I'm being confronted with my pride. I don't mean to sound like a pessimist, but I'm like, man, I suck. [Laughter]

Shelby: And when you have kids, you'll actually discover, Oh, I really am selfish.
Like it goes to another level.

Axel: Sure, and like, I'm not there yet, you know, me and my wife are like, Yes. Let's just travel the world. [Laughter]

Shelby: But still you're being confronted with, like, Your own, uh--

Axel: I think even in that idea of let's just do us for now. And I think God will either honor the fact that we want to take some time to ourselves, and He'll be like, “I have different plans,” and babies might come whenever God wants.

Shelby: Sure.

Axel: But, yes man, it's been a beautiful thing. It's been overall, it's been a great thing to be confronted, with how prideful I can be sometimes. I think she can agree to that too, because it's really shaped who we are as people these last couple months. I don't view life the same way that I used to a couple months ago. God has done a lot.

Shelby: Well, yes, I mean, that's a difficult thing, but it's also a beautiful thing.

Can you think of something that's like; you're surprised by that's been really delightful in marriage? What's been like, “Oh, I didn't expect this to be so like positive in this way or maybe—"

Axel: --I think—

Shelby: It's the dynamics of living with another person.

Axel: Yes, I've come to find that, man, we just have fun conversations. We're just cracking up in bed sometimes. And I think I don't know if it's surprising, but like I really did marry my best friend. One of the most delightful things about being with her is just being able to spend that time with her, just sitting down watching movies. Not really liking a movie, taking it off. Honestly, we've struggled to find good movies. [Laughter] Yes, there's not a lot of good movies.
Shelby: There’s not a lot of good movies these days.

Axel: Movies are just like, people are just not creative. But anyways, that's not the point.

I think just being with her. Like, going to Walmart can be fun, bro. With her it really can be, I'm like, ooh, I love being with you.

Shelby: Being with your friend, yes.

Axel: Yes, I'm here with my friend and we're just making jokes or whatever. But long car rides have been really good conversations. Just last night we were talking about playing certain kinds of music at church, and our differing views on that, and stuff or whatever and like we butt heads in some senses, but like it was so good. I was like man, you're my best friend like you annoy me sometimes, but I really love you so much. [Laughter] So that's been good.

Shelby: That's really great.

Axel: It's been so pleasant.

Shelby: I really love sitting down with Axel and talking about this today, because I spend a lot of time making the assumption that if you're listening to this that you're single. But honestly, there are quite a few of you who are married at this point in your life, and I thought Axel gave us an important and God-honoring perspective on what it's like to be married in your twenties.

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Hey, I want to thank everybody on the Real Life Loading team. You guys are awesome. I'm Shelby Abbott and I'll see you back next time on Real Life Loading…

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